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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Room response included in Xover design?
Room response included in Xover design?
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:34 AM   #1
montana1 is online now montana1  United States
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Default Room response included in Xover design?

Hi to all,
I was looking to get opinions on should/could the room effect model be included with woofer low frequency response for xover design? Everything I see posted on this forum seems to exclude room effects. I realize if speaker was to be moved to different rooms that it would be best to not include the room effects. But, the speaker Iím currently designing will stay in one room for the foreseeable future.

Thanks in advance,
Rich
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:42 AM   #2
nigelwright7557 is offline nigelwright7557  United Kingdom
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Rooms can vary from very echoey, to very damped if it has lots of curtains. soft furnishings etc.
I used to often play my disco and guitar in a large garage with brick walls without any problems.
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:40 AM   #3
montana1 is online now montana1  United States
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Nigel,
Thanks for your reply.

Best,
Rich
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Old 15th February 2020, 03:51 AM   #4
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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I do. Works a treat, especially for 2 way speakers.

Here are some of the challenges and pro/cons, in my world.

There are complications in attempting quasi-anechoic measurements. In particular you still need to calculate the baffle step and add any port into the equation. Are you going to do that precisely correctly?

By relying on in-room for the mid-woofer, you skirt ALL of that, but you have to eyeball the mid-woofer/port response and look with rose colored glasses. It's going to look like hell, and if you are doing a 3-way, you can't really get a good enough measurement to get the right phase alignment. On the other hand, if you are doing a 2-way, can use gated / mixed measurements then you have it all done for you, and have a decent idea of how it will perform in a reasonably close room.

Here's a project I did that way, and you can see the fixes I've applied since:

A Speaker Maker's Journey: The SNR-1, Room Response and Roon


I designed that for an apartment I had 2 moves prior, still holds up.
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Old 15th February 2020, 04:26 AM   #5
wintermute is offline wintermute  Australia
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Room response included in Xover design?
Unless you have a very large room and the speakers will be way away from any walls (in which case you can probably put full baffle step compensation into the crossover) you will need to take into consideration how the speaker will perform in the room if you are going to get the best result.

Now having said that you can choose to use EQ separate from your crossover to adjust for any room specific anomalies.

If you don't want to have any separate EQ then I would say yes you should consider the room effects when designing the crossover to get the best response for that room.

If you do want to use separate EQ and are likely to move the speakers to different rooms then I would say no you shouldn't design the crossover to take into account the room response.

Tony.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:38 AM   #6
Bill Coltrane is offline Bill Coltrane  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montana1 View Post
Hi to all,
I was looking to get opinions on should/could the room effect model be included with woofer low frequency response for xover design? Everything I see posted on this forum seems to exclude room effects. I realize if speaker was to be moved to different rooms that it would be best to not include the room effects. But, the speaker Iím currently designing will stay in one room for the foreseeable future.

Thanks in advance,
Rich

If your speaker has a uniform polar response, then it will sound good in any room.
See Toole YouTube
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:21 AM   #7
Zuhl is offline Zuhl  England
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I design my speakers to match the room. It's one of the main advantages the diy speaker designer has.

What's the point is making a speaker with a theoretical ruler flat response if it's not going to be flat in room?

The downside is the speaker will only sound right in that room only. For most people that's not an issue.
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:34 AM   #8
Boden is offline Boden  Netherlands
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@Zuhl: could you please elaborate how you design speakers to match the room?
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Old 15th February 2020, 11:28 AM   #9
Zuhl is offline Zuhl  England
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Originally Posted by Boden View Post
@Zuhl: could you please elaborate how you design speakers to match the room?
First step, as normal, is get the normally measured raw 'in box' responses into x-sim and design the crossover to be flat. Then take measurements in room and adjust components to flatten the response.
My room has an uplift 400-600 hz which can affect vocals quite badly. Also a strong treble roll off. Easy to fix in the design. Cannot be fixed in a commercial speaker, other than by using an equaliser, which adds its own problems.

The only thing you can't fix are sharp dips. I have a narrow 'hole' at 50 hz not even an equaliser can fix.
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:27 PM   #10
Boden is offline Boden  Netherlands
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Is the design than based on room-averaged in box raw driver measurements or single point?
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