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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

ESS AMT-1 in my projects
ESS AMT-1 in my projects
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Old Yesterday, 08:41 PM   #41
Pharos is offline Pharos  United Kingdom
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Location: Seaford
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Originally Posted by homebuilder View Post
Pharos: thanks for your comments. I have a stack of NOS TAD mid-bass, 1201H. They work well sealed from about 160hz up to 800 or so. They also work very well horn loaded, but I'm not really interested right now in building a large horn. They work really well in a box as small as 1 cubic foot.

I agree with what you are saying...the woofer is going to be the issue. I see why these are so attractive to the Klipsch and Altec (and other) crowds. Do you think relieving a woofer of the duty of playing up higher would make it easier to find a good candidate for the bottom end?

Since I first posted, I talked to Rick out at ESS. I'm going to start by ordering a pair of the large drivers, and stick them on my vintage speaker.
What you are asking is the question facing designers when trying to get a two way to cover the range, hence the curvilinear approach, otherwise you are looking at three way, which ESS did in the early years. The curvilinear is an attempt to 'have it both ways', to stretch the frequency response, and of course is a compromise. I can tolerate three way but more, like JM Lab or Wilson I cannot. I presume you've bought their paper cone 12" ones.
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Old Yesterday, 09:17 PM   #42
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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ESS AMT-1 in my projects
homebuilder: My blame goes to xrk971, it was his foam horn that made me buy my pair. And from what I have seen so far in my measurements, I am very happy with them. And I see even buying a second pair as an option now
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Old Yesterday, 10:55 PM   #43
homebuilder is offline homebuilder  United States
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Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
What you are asking is the question facing designers when trying to get a two way to cover the range, hence the curvilinear approach, otherwise you are looking at three way, which ESS did in the early years. The curvilinear is an attempt to 'have it both ways', to stretch the frequency response, and of course is a compromise. I can tolerate three way but more, like JM Lab or Wilson I cannot. I presume you've bought their paper cone 12" ones.
Pharos: yes, I have the paper TAD mid-bass. I bought them originally for a 4-way. Well, the extra NOS ones were more of an impulse thing..... I really like 3 way speakers, and have not heard many 2 way that I like. It all comes down to what a person is exposed to. That being said, I've built, and heard speakers with a woofer playing up to around 1200hz, and the same ones handing off those duties to a mid-bass. I liked the mid-bass version better.

Well, I have a pair of the ESS coming soon. We shall see. I have on hand a pair of nice 15" that are 89 db/1watt but don't know if I'll bother replacing the alnico woofer. On some quiet passages, of mostly synthesizer type music, I occasionally hear a "raspy" "low pitch buzzing sound from the woofer, which at first made me worry about the cone being torn, or something similar. A friend suggested it might be a loose spider. (?)

pelanj: I'm with you on the whole stacked pair idea. I plan to buy extra units too, and put together a winged kit. I wonder if there is any performance difference in the 3 sizes available from ESS?
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Old Yesterday, 11:28 PM   #44
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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ESS AMT-1 in my projects
I took the largest ones because they had the possibility of the lowest crossover point. One funny fact is, that the shipping and VAT cost me almost more than the pair of drivers...
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Old Today, 12:01 AM   #45
homebuilder is offline homebuilder  United States
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Originally Posted by pelanj View Post
I took the largest ones because they had the possibility of the lowest crossover point. One funny fact is, that the shipping and VAT cost me almost more than the pair of drivers...
pelanj: That is too bad about the VAT. Here, they ship for that price. A bit of State tax, but very little. I ordered the large ones too, although I'm planning to cross at 800 anyway.

What do you think of this idea: my vintage speakers have a potted 800 hz crossover, which I have no idea of how the components have aged. My thought was to simply replace the horn, and put the ESS in its place. Start at low volume, and listen to the result. A couple people have told me the crossover is probably shot, and others have stated that the company used high quality components that don't age much. I don't know which to believe, so thought I'd start with just this step. Then remove the crossover, and use my TDM electronic crossover, which has level attenuation. Of course that means a multi channel amp, which I have. If this sounds good, I have a nice 2 way down to about 50hz. I have subs too, but would not use them for this "testing".

At some point, I'll likely end up with a DSP, but want to listen first.

By the way, how difficult was your learning curve with a 3d printer? I have another hobby that could really benefit from making small parts (say .5" up to 4") I'd prefer metal.
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Old Today, 06:56 AM   #46
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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ESS AMT-1 in my projects
I think that the AMT will have lower sensitivity than the horn, but it should work for the test.

It took me a few days to get usable prints with my cheap 3D printer kit. So not too difficult, it needs some experimenting in the beginning. I could pursue higher quality for the prints, but I am happy as it is now. Metal would be much more difficult I would guess.
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Old Today, 09:48 AM   #47
Pharos is offline Pharos  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Feb 2020
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Originally Posted by pelanj View Post
I took the largest ones because they had the possibility of the lowest crossover point. One funny fact is, that the shipping and VAT cost me almost more than the pair of drivers...
It is always possible to use any driver over a smaller range than that which t is designed for, and its performance will almost certsinly be at its best in that range.

It is also desirable to choose any driver to have as wide a range as possible, preferably able to cover at least one and preferably two octaves outside its used range because even with the steepest Xover slopes, 24dB/Oct, there is still a considerable O/P outside the chosen range.Choosing woofers randomly is unwise, the frequency range specs are crucial.

IMO the largest Heil from ESS is easily the best.

Last edited by Pharos; Today at 09:50 AM.
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