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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Treble, how to be good?
Treble, how to be good?
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:36 AM   #21
YSDR is offline YSDR  Hungary
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Listening distance is about 2 m.
Yeah I considered a 3D printed waveguide to the existing tweeters but if I hear the fabric dome break-up, then no waveguide would help here.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:40 AM   #22
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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While we are talking directivity: What midrange driver are you using ?

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Charles
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:51 AM   #23
YSDR is offline YSDR  Hungary
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The midrange driver is an 18 Sound 6ND430.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:04 AM   #24
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Treble, how to be good?
What does your mid filter look like?
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:18 AM   #25
YSDR is offline YSDR  Hungary
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The filtering is complicated. The midrange response is flattened (with DSP) so that even the breakup is not present as peaks in the frequency response. So the on-axis frequency response follows almost textbook LR4 up to 5 kHz (after that point the response steepens as seen in the datasheet) in this case.

Otherwise if I disconnect the midrange, the high pitched unpleasantness still present in the same way. So I am 90% sure it's not the midrange driver the problem. The high frequencies are too sharp sometimes if I want to describe simply.
It might have to be like that anyway, but I don't like it.

Last edited by YSDR; 15th January 2020 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:31 AM   #26
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Treble, how to be good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by YSDR View Post
The filtering is complicated. The midrange response is flattened (with DSP) so that even the breakup is not present as peaks in the frequency response.
It may be worth noting that this nulls off-axis contributions and so ignores those variations. Sometimes treble quality is best judged when it has a well tempered midrange behind it.
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Old 15th January 2020, 09:32 AM   #27
phase_accurate is offline phase_accurate
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In this case we can most probably rule out off-axis response anomalies.
Did you ever generate a waterfall plot ?

Just one additional thought: What if the sibilance is not caused by the speaker at all ?

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Charles
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:02 AM   #28
spendormania is offline spendormania  Germany
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Hi Denes,

this seems to be an off-axis problem, causing to much treble at your listening place. A waveguide could solve the problem but to be honest, your tweeter is a very good one and so the problem should be fixed without a new construction.

Have you ever tried a speaker position, where the axis of the speakers are crossing in front of the sweet spot (RLX-geometry)?

Click the image to open in full size.

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Ludger
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:41 AM   #29
YSDR is offline YSDR  Hungary
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Hi Ludger!

I haven't tried a positioning like that LRX but looks interesting.

As for the waveguide, I needed to reduced the on-axis tweeter level to get a balanced sound at the listening spot. If the on-axis response is ruler flat then the in-room balance is way too lean.

Last edited by YSDR; 15th January 2020 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 05:18 PM   #30
hifijim is online now hifijim  United States
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When I look at the waterfall plots and step response plots on "hificompass" for a variety of tweeters, it looks to me that the ScanSpeak D3004 has a clean decay in the time domain. Whatever breakup modes are present, they must be very well damped, because they don't really show up in these plots. The CSD looks pretty good even when comparing to the ceramic and beryllium drivers (not quite as clean, but close). The 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion are good also (above 3kHz) and compares well with the best.

I have always preferred metal dome tweeters, but this scanspeak D3004 looks quite nice to me.

My hunch is that this is actually a midrange issue. For example, if your mid is making 3rd harmonic distortion in the 1-2 kHz range, that will show up as noise in the 4-8 kHz region. 3rd HD is very noticeable, much more than 2nd HD... If this be the case, it does not matter that you filter the input to the mid driver to remove 4k to 8k input... the fact that you are sending it 1k-2k signal means it will very definitely produce noise in the 4k-8k range... again, assuming that your mid driver has a 3rd HD problem.
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