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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:16 AM   #51
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
Freddi, I did not play much with the K15, I am trying to make my main system sound better at the moment...

But I have some results with the bent K-Tube. And I think the results are quite interesting.

Again, my measurement techniques are far from perfect, but I tried to catch some trends in there. All plots are gated at ca 2.5 ms and 1/6 oct smoothed. The first one is on axis horizontally and roughly at the point of the K-Tube vertically at around 1 meter distance. The second one is at the same height but ca 20 degrees of axis horizontally. The third one is the two previous combined.

If I read that correctly, it seems to work and the bend does not have too much influence.

The IR shows that the mids are 0.65 ms delayed behind the HF (and I am not sure if the pulses are the same polarity or not). I will try to compensate the delay with DSP at some point.

As a conclusion, I would say that with a bit of EQ in the top end, this should work well and most probably even better with a smaller diameter tube. And it seems from all the measurements I made that in the HF, the K tube should be listened to almost on axis with the slot pointing up (or down ???).

The last picture is the same drivers on ARB2 horns and physically aligned with passive XO as comparison.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KTubeBentARB2OnAxis.jpg (82.4 KB, 132 views)
File Type: jpg KTubeBentARB2OffAxis.jpg (90.7 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg KTubeBentARB2All.jpg (108.2 KB, 131 views)
File Type: jpg KTubeBentIROnAxis.jpg (71.4 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg DualARB2.jpg (90.5 KB, 133 views)
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:20 AM   #52
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
pretty good. What does the K-tube's constribution look like if the mic is pointed "straight down" the K-tube's long axis ? - that's where the HF is probably most extended. (?)
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:30 AM   #53
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
Actually, with this mechanical configuration, the mic is aligned "straight down" the long axis at 1 meter. It seems as the K-Tube has a constant-directivity like falling FR. Subjectively, there is enough HF in the room, so maybe not much boost would be needed. I am now not set up to run music through it and will not be for a while. One thing I need to try out is having a large XPS baffle around the horn flush with the front.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:48 PM   #54
Soldermizer is offline Soldermizer  United States
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Default Comment from peanut gallery...

Mostly a lurker here. I find it amusing how much effort people worry about making sure they get enough output from a compression driver. Granted, usually the issue is to get them to play low enough. But output? They are ridiculously efficient (for home use). I mean, even "mosquito burner" wizard Danley's smaller offerings, even the SH50, or his bastard spawn the Yorkville Unity use a 1" CD for > 1000 Hz (approx.) And these are sized for club or auditorium use. Um, just how much HF do we need at home, guys?
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:22 PM   #55
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
maybe enough to get a fairly "reasonably" believable snare drum rim shot "crack" and cymbal power on a close miced drumkit without too much thermal compression or driver overload - ?
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:25 PM   #56
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
It is not about dBs, it is about efficiency, so that I can run some sweet sounding SET amps with the horns. And this K-tube experiment is mostly about integrating the tweeter CD with the midrange as tightly as possible - since placing one on top of each other was OK, but not perfect. And as the last thing, it is fun to experiment Especially, the K-tube is kind of exotic and there is not much information about it...and I will most probably have a surprise ready from one very generous DiyAudio member...stay tuned
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Old 16th January 2020, 12:39 AM   #57
kipman725 is online now kipman725  United Kingdom
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Looks like your getting wide dispersion and more extended highs using the k-tube. So pretty successful!
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Old 18th January 2020, 12:51 PM   #58
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
Thanks to DonVK and Freddi, there are some ways for potential improvement. Discussed here: 3D printed K-Tube for 1" compression drivers DonVK simulated the K-Tube in ABEC.
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Old 18th January 2020, 05:09 PM   #59
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
Carl has experimented with shorter K-tube (3.5K up) and made K-tubes using laminated wood veneer in round and oval cross section for a more dead structure.

look at Karlson's "Open End Waveguide Antenna" patent

https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US3445852.pdf
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Old 18th January 2020, 11:04 PM   #60
pelanj is offline pelanj  Czech Republic
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Combining a 2" exit driver with a HF unit as a point source. Is it possible?
So one of the slimmer tubes is printed. I hope I calculated and measured right

Now when the horn is drilled also from the other side, I will have three configurations to try out - that will be a mono test on my K15 clone - not only measuring, but also listening. Straight, bent and dual tubes with dual compression drivers. The K-Tubes are really interesting devices
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