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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Why is floor bounce mostly ignored in commercial speakers??
Why is floor bounce mostly ignored in commercial speakers??
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Old 2nd December 2019, 11:28 AM   #1
Defo is offline Defo  Norway
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Default Why is floor bounce mostly ignored in commercial speakers?

I've observed that most manufacturers seem to don't really care about the floor bounce effect in their designs.

Even with 3-ways where you could/should just place the woofer close to the floor and the midrange far enough from the floor for it to be outside the passband of both drivers.

So why is this?

Only reason I can think of is that closer center-to-center distance between woofer and midrange is of higher priority. Although the XO point between these two is usually low enough that it shouldn't really be an issue

Last edited by Defo; 2nd December 2019 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:12 PM   #2
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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There won't be a single fixed answer to that, more a series of answers for a variety of reasons, some acoustic, some cost, some marketing / aesthetic. The phrase you used 'could / should' is actually a good way of looking at it.

Many could, acoustically speaking. Whether that means they 'should' is another matter entirely, as they have a number of variables beyond pure acoustics to consider. Which is assuming they consider it to be a significant issue in the first place; they may not.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:46 PM   #3
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Agree, there are more than a few ways of looking at it.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:52 PM   #4
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Probably for commercial reasons
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:08 PM   #5
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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To a point / in a lot of cases quite likely -but then, all decisions for commercial loudspeakers are to some extent commercial. No shame in that, they're businesses, not philanthropic institutions, and if they want to survive they have to give the market what it wants, or what they have a reasonable - good chance of persuading them to buy. Just the way of the world.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:29 PM   #6
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Which also answers the OP's question. Hoorah for DIY
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:35 PM   #7
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Indeed.

I wouldn't run away with the assumption that it's the sole reason though. Life is not quite so black and white as all that, and there are other factors involved: as noted, some acoustic, some cost, some marketing / aesthetic. DIY construction can help remove some of those restrictions that may, or may not, apply to a given commercial product.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:37 PM   #8
Defo is offline Defo  Norway
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Well, moving the woofer further towards the floor wouldn't really have a huge impact in aesthetics for most designs.

You would at least think the manufacturers targeting hifi community would do it.
Like B&W, Klipsch, etc. But they don't (for the most part).

Makes me think that there's gotta be another reason. Is the audible effect of floor bounce not great enough to care?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 01:53 PM   #9
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Really? I wouldn't be so sure about that, re the aesthetics. Speaking purely in the abstract, aesthetics being what they are, what you might consider as having little impact, some others might regard as ugly. And that's assuming the desired baffle arrangements actually allow you to position the woofer at xyz distance from the deck, which is not always the case.

Re hi-fi; let's be honest here. A significant amount (arguably the majority) of commercial hi-fi ran off into rampant subjectivism at some point in the 1980s, and technical performance became a side-issue from the end-user's POV. Once upon a time, many, if not most buyers were quite technically savvy, not least because in many cases they actually had to design and build the gear themselves. As that changed, and off-the-shelf became the norm, a lot of that technical knowledge dwindled, and I think I can safely promise you this: in the UK at least, the technical knowledge of most commercial hi-fi buyers is lousy at best. No reflection on them, although they would probably do themselves and their enjoyment a big favour if they tried to learn.

Is floor-bounce a big deal? It's not ideal, that's for sure, but what with our falling hearing acuity in the LF, coupled with the fact that our hearing primarily 'keys off the peaks' and that the room response generally dominates low down anyway -well, circumstance dependent, but in many cases, it's just one of a factor of junk in the LF that, at least to a point, we listen around, as it were, and many will probably only notice a dulled fundamental if they're particularly focused on it. Obviously, the ideal is not to have it, but many, even quite critical listeners, appear to be able to live with it. Not everyone, but many.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 02:17 PM   #10
Sixto is offline Sixto  United States
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Ok, so if we had an ideal situation, with a 3-way floor-stander and a low enough W-M crossover... how far would/should one place the mid from the floor to avoid floor-bounce? I'll assume an 8' tall ceiling for this exercise. If a 2" tweeter with a 3-1/2" face plate wants to be centered at seated ear height roughly 45" high, then place a 6" mid as close to that as possible. That places the Mid center at around 40" above the floor. (8" below the midpoint between floor and ceiling) Does that reduce the floor bounce enough, or is some device like MTM configuration, or a horn, or an angled baffle required to control vertical directivity further? I'm assuming that floor bounce can't be avoided for the woofers, so any size and height that works below that should be fine. Also, we'd need to place the vertical driver center at least 3' to 4' far from a wall, or toe it in to avoid wall bounce, right?

Is this what we're talking about, or am I missing something? Just looking to get some concrete recommendations, and reasons for them from this thread. Thanks! Six.

P.S. just measured my B&W's and the mid is at 35.5" from the floor, also my Ohm 2's are a different bird (Omnis with a vertical cone aiming down) They have the top of the wood base at 2' above the floor and the top of the metal canister 6" above that. I should measure the B&W's where they are, and then try again with a 10" riser and see what REW shows.

Last edited by Sixto; 2nd December 2019 at 02:29 PM. Reason: added Post-Script
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