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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Would like some help with Infinity Kappa 400 crossover
Would like some help with Infinity Kappa 400 crossover
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Old 25th November 2019, 07:25 AM   #1
Dejau is offline Dejau
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Default Would like some help with Infinity Kappa 400 crossover

Hi,


I know very little about crossover design so please bear with me.


I bought used Kappa 400 after owning Kappa 200 and liking them quite a bit but kappa 400 had issues – one was that their crossover was most definetely "tweeked" (no idea what was "tweeked") by the previous owner as tweeter was far too hot (and owning kappa 200 I know how tweeter should sound in relation to midrange driver).


Upon opening these up (sorry, no stock photo) I saw that crossovers looked fine (everything looked "stock") apart from burnt resistors (now changed to new 1 and 12 Ohm cement resitors). 1 ohm resistor was at least recognisable (both measured 1.2-1.4 Ohm, color coding was recognizable to some extent) but other resistor (now 12 Ohm) in both crossovers was badly damaged and was hard to measure correctly (it was burnt, color codes made no sense, resistors measured 13 Ohm for the better looking one and around 27 Ohm for badly burnt one; I will try to find them because I know I put them somewhere).


I really like pronounced high frequencies (I also use monitor audio GS10 and Elac jet 310 speakers and AKG K812 headphones to give you an idea) but this kappa treble is far far too bright even compared to them. My last straw was new Kef LS50 (which should be somewhat bright) which sound like sennnheiser HD650 (veiled) when compared to Kappa 400 treble monsters.


1) So basically I now have a trouble of making treble far less hot but dont know how to do it correctly since I only know hot to add in-series resistor and here resistors are in parralel as far as I can see. Please bear with my lack of knowledge but the only ther thing I can think if is to replace that 1 Ohm resistor (higher value) to reign in tweeter and replace 12 Ohm resistor (lower value) to keep midrange driver at same-ish level (bass is way too shy at the moment but that may be because of tweeter murdering everything else)
(what would be a good start?)...


2) Also I think that polarity of midrange and tweeter was reversed (as far as my skills of reading circuit boards go, that is definetely the case here, dont know of it was designed to be so...) as I get phase error every single time in audyssey XT32 when trying to calibrate kappa's (do not get this error with my other speakers)?


Would really appreciate your help as I want to my these kappa's great again. Thanks!


Edit: wasn't able to add images to a thread so here are google drive links:


Top view – Infinity kappa 400 top.jpg - Google Drive
Back view (C – capacitor; R – resistor) – Infinity kappa 400 back.jpg - Google Drive

Last edited by Dejau; 25th November 2019 at 07:46 AM. Reason: No images were added
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Old 25th November 2019, 07:54 AM   #2
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Mmmmhhh, just figured out ( after googling) what those Infinity Kappa 400 look like: two- way or three way, Two-way with side firing woofer.
So the 150 uF cap is the HP ( together with the coil and the 5 W 10 Ω resistor> this R determines a less...determined intervention of the coil so "softer" slope, thus a different Q)
The 1 Ω resistor is in series to the tweeter> it determines ...well, NO!
I'm lost
It's your exercise to derive a good looking circuit schematic from that PCB

Hope that helps...
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Old 25th November 2019, 08:26 AM   #3
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Ok, now I got it...still I cannot figure out how a side-fire woofer...never mind!
The mid-woofer is high passed ( it goes together with the suspension/closed box approach) by the 150 uF cap, the LP ( one big coil )- the other big coil serves the side woofer. The tweeter is CLC ( third order) and has no attenuation; the polarity is right, what else? Uh, the color bar code...R U kidding?!? There's only J or K for tolerance, for those cemented resistors.
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Last edited by picowallspeaker; 25th November 2019 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 25th November 2019, 10:47 AM   #4
Dejau is offline Dejau
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Thanks for your help and I'm really sorry that I dont know how crossover is designed (I understand how simple crossover works but this is far more complex than what I'm familiar with) – side-woofer is only passed through iron core inductor (B in scheme). What did you mean by "color bar code"? I measured resistors at shop to be at 1 Ohm and 10 Ohm exactly. That 10 Ohm resistor goes to both tweeter and mid-woofer and 1 Ohm resistor goes just to mid-woofe (here is my terrible paint job – Infinity kappa 400 back(1).jpg - Google Drive )



By the way there is pretty much nothing in series in this crossover (apart from side-woofer). My main goal is just to tame that tweeter because it most definetely should not be so bright (and I like bright sound signature).
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Old 25th November 2019, 12:32 PM   #5
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Well, it was you that was complaining about color codes:
Quote:
color coding was recognizable to some extent) but other resistor (now 12 Ohm) in both crossovers was badly damaged and was hard to measure correctly (it was burnt, color codes made no sense, resistors measured 13 Ohm
But...well, nevermind (... the bar ?!).

The 1 Ω resistor makes me think...
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Old 25th November 2019, 02:37 PM   #6
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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After looking at your drawings and photos, I don't see resistors going to the tweeter.

The 1 ohm is part of the midrange low pass and the 10 ohm is part of the midrange high pass. They do not change the level.

When you design an L-pad, you should de-solder T- and put it in there.
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Old 25th November 2019, 04:43 PM   #7
Dejau is offline Dejau
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So did I understand that correctly – as far as crossover is concerned – these is no resistors in circuit to lower level of any of these speaker drivers (meaning they should be about the same sensitivity)? Can I use QED WM14 to test out what tweeter level I like?

On another note I found my "original" resistors (and I personally think they are original crossover components). Their remeasured values are – 1.4 and 1.6 Ohm; 9 Ohm and 23 Ohm. Any idea of what value resistor should be of second resistor pair (they are same but one measures 9 and another 23 Ohm). Link to photo – Resistors.jpg - Google Drive
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Old 26th November 2019, 01:12 AM   #8
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Brown red gold should be 1.2 ohms. Brown grey black should be 18 ohms. I am not sure of the colours as brown is different in each case. Sometimes it gets like this with heat damage, age fading etc. What colours do you see?
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Old 26th November 2019, 07:05 AM   #9
Dejau is offline Dejau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
Brown red gold should be 1.2 ohms. Brown grey black should be 18 ohms. I am not sure of the colours as brown is different in each case. Sometimes it gets like this with heat damage, age fading etc. What colours do you see?
In "dry" parts of resistor it looks like it is brown, light brown/brown, black, gold. In "wet" (covered in dark goo) parts only dark goo/greyish, greyish, blackish, goldish.
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Old 26th November 2019, 08:34 AM   #10
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Is it time for some guesses? These resistors are to modify the filters, you might say it changes them a little away from 2nd order toward first order. In the case of the 1.2 ohm this is not much, it probably just tweaks a small peak or dip and adjusts phase a little. The larger resistor probably has more effect on the filter by increasing the upper bass.

Your idea about the QED is good. I don't know what circuit the QED uses, so I don't know if it is the best choice.
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