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Unity/Synergy horn closed vs open back
Unity/Synergy horn closed vs open back
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Old 11th November 2019, 02:22 AM   #1
Giri is offline Giri
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Default Unity/Synergy horn closed vs open back

Are there any inherent disadvantages to using open back drivers for mid range of a 2-way Synergy horn (while the tweeter would stay a compression driver) so that the front and back waves are allowed to interact, like a dipole?
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Old 11th November 2019, 03:35 AM   #2
seedlings is offline seedlings  United States
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The horn waves and back waves will probably be destructively interactive.
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Old 11th November 2019, 04:29 AM   #3
cowanaudio is offline cowanaudio  Australia
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Unity/Synergy horn closed vs open back
Kind of defeats the purpose when one of the major advantages of a constant directivity MEH is to minimise the amount of reflected sound in the room.

I see no benefit to an open back synergy style horn.
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:27 AM   #4
Giri is offline Giri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seedlings View Post
The horn waves and back waves will probably be destructively interactive.
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Originally Posted by cowanaudio View Post
Kind of defeats the purpose when one of the major advantages of a constant directivity MEH is to minimise the amount of reflected sound in the room.

I see no benefit to an open back synergy style horn.
I am a bit enamored with the open baffle sound at lower and lower mid frequencies and horn sound at the top end. So, I wondered if an open back lower mids in a Synergy horn could be a way to hear some of the dipole magic, even if means to see dipole cancellation along the axis. In a broader sense, u-frame, open baffle and horn are just structures where their "wings" progressively curving forward, towards the driver.
I wonder if a Synergy horn with with extremely wide angle of dispersion might give best of the both worlds?
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Old 11th November 2019, 07:30 AM   #5
wonderfulaudio is offline wonderfulaudio
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Originally Posted by Giri View Post
I am a bit enamored with the open baffle sound at lower and lower mid frequencies
Open baffle has better separation of direct to indirect sound and better directivity in the dipole region.

In a synergy horn, the mids go from controlled directivity (highs) to omni at some low frequency within their bandwidth. Operating them in dipole in this frequency is the only reason why they may sound better than sealed. I started a similar thread but it didnt go as expected.

How to model a driver in a dipole waveguide?
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Old 12th November 2019, 02:28 AM   #6
Giri is offline Giri
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Originally Posted by wonderfulaudio View Post
Open baffle has better separation of direct to indirect sound and better directivity in the dipole region.

In a synergy horn, the mids go from controlled directivity (highs) to omni at some low frequency within their bandwidth. Operating them in dipole in this frequency is the only reason why they may sound better than sealed. I started a similar thread but it didnt go as expected.

How to model a driver in a dipole waveguide?
After asking around and googling, I figured the best option is to go 4-way. Low and low-mid handled by H-frame/OB, and high-mid and high going into a unity horn. Hopefully, that makes engineering sense.
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Old 12th November 2019, 02:37 AM   #7
googlyone is offline googlyone  Australia
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It makes sense to you...

I would be cautious seeking affirmation of the idea in an "engineering sense" as you will get more opinions than you get answers.

Here is my opinion....

As an "engineer" I get the idea of a high efficiency system. A unity horn and high efficiency sub / bass is consistent with this.

Open baffle is not high efficiency- certainly not at low frequencies. So mixing the two, open baffle and horn, strikes me as a personal choice rather than logical.
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Old 12th November 2019, 09:08 AM   #8
Giri is offline Giri
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Originally Posted by googlyone View Post
It makes sense to you...

I would be cautious seeking affirmation of the idea in an "engineering sense" as you will get more opinions than you get answers.

Here is my opinion....

As an "engineer" I get the idea of a high efficiency system. A unity horn and high efficiency sub / bass is consistent with this.

Open baffle is not high efficiency- certainly not at low frequencies. So mixing the two, open baffle and horn, strikes me as a personal choice rather than logical.
The choice is indeed based on personal listening preferences. Coupled with OBs, the horns should be run at pretty low power but that will only lend to dynamics. My interest in efficiency has more to do with dynamics than loudness.

It seems that the Unity horn is effective above 600 Hz, within reasonable dimensions, even though I can work less perfectly below 600 Hz.

One idea is to have two H-frame 15" double woofers on each side to compensate for loss of OB low end. The lower mid can be incorporated into the horn to make it a 3-way.

What do you think would be a more logical design choice?
Answers and opinions are both welcome
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Old 12th November 2019, 09:54 AM   #9
kees52 is offline kees52  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by googlyone View Post
It makes sense to you...

I would be cautious seeking affirmation of the idea in an "engineering sense" as you will get more opinions than you get answers.

Here is my opinion....

As an "engineer" I get the idea of a high efficiency system. A unity horn and high efficiency sub / bass is consistent with this.

Open baffle is not high efficiency- certainly not at low frequencies. So mixing the two, open baffle and horn, strikes me as a personal choice rather than logical.
And what sub bass do you prevere as a high efficient system? tapped horn, closed box, slotted sub or just a plain horn (big).

regards
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Old 12th November 2019, 10:18 AM   #10
AllenB is online now AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giri View Post
I wonder if a Synergy horn with with extremely wide angle of dispersion might give best of the both worlds?
You obviously want an omni synergy, why not build one (minus the loading of course)?
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