Giri
i found photos as requested of the horns...
The photo is of me outside trying to measure the response, sitting on one of them when I was trying it in the corner and next to a recliner for scale. The real installation ended up with the horns facing one another along the middle of the wall. The wall was about 30 feet long so there was plenty of room for them in the middle.
These photos are from 2005 mind you... though to this day I am yet to meet an implementation of a sub in the 35Hz plus region other than a horn loaded arrangement that comes close in efficiency and useable bandwidth.
I was surprised at the tapped horn I did a couple of years ago - but the insane breakup modes these have outside their tuned bandwidth is a real issue, and excursion remains an issue.
I was sad to leave that property as my play room was literally an entire spare house with all the walls taken out. No neighbours for close to 1/4 mile so I could get silly with the volume PLUS a 40 by 40 foot shed next to the play room to build stuff in....
You need space with a horn loaded system and big amps.
At the time I built that i was not aware of synergy horns. Someone will surely put me straight, but I doubt they were a thing 15 years ago.
If you want efficiency and see reason for a synergy horn, build it and build a sub that has a hope of keeping up. I promise you there are few things like sitting in your play room with 130+dB hitting you at those low frequencies...
i found photos as requested of the horns...
The photo is of me outside trying to measure the response, sitting on one of them when I was trying it in the corner and next to a recliner for scale. The real installation ended up with the horns facing one another along the middle of the wall. The wall was about 30 feet long so there was plenty of room for them in the middle.
These photos are from 2005 mind you... though to this day I am yet to meet an implementation of a sub in the 35Hz plus region other than a horn loaded arrangement that comes close in efficiency and useable bandwidth.
I was surprised at the tapped horn I did a couple of years ago - but the insane breakup modes these have outside their tuned bandwidth is a real issue, and excursion remains an issue.
I was sad to leave that property as my play room was literally an entire spare house with all the walls taken out. No neighbours for close to 1/4 mile so I could get silly with the volume PLUS a 40 by 40 foot shed next to the play room to build stuff in....
You need space with a horn loaded system and big amps.
At the time I built that i was not aware of synergy horns. Someone will surely put me straight, but I doubt they were a thing 15 years ago.
If you want efficiency and see reason for a synergy horn, build it and build a sub that has a hope of keeping up. I promise you there are few things like sitting in your play room with 130+dB hitting you at those low frequencies...
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G'day Phil
I completely agree that a low sensitivity bass section below a 100dB/W/M horn is missing the point. Team up a high sensitivity mid/high section with a suitable bass horn and the system will take you places just not possible with conventional systems, especially with some power on tap.
The Unity horn concept is pretty old now. I've had mine since 2001. The Synergy horn is just an iteration of the original Unity horns. I am surprised more people have not combined them with bass horns. The acoustic result can be quite special and also pleasing to the eye. The speaker below is a MEH with a bass horn wrapped around it. The bass section is >105dB/W/M and is powered by a 500W ncore amplifier.
Your new play room would be ideal for a fully horn loaded system. The acoustics may be tough to tame though.
I completely agree that a low sensitivity bass section below a 100dB/W/M horn is missing the point. Team up a high sensitivity mid/high section with a suitable bass horn and the system will take you places just not possible with conventional systems, especially with some power on tap.
The Unity horn concept is pretty old now. I've had mine since 2001. The Synergy horn is just an iteration of the original Unity horns. I am surprised more people have not combined them with bass horns. The acoustic result can be quite special and also pleasing to the eye. The speaker below is a MEH with a bass horn wrapped around it. The bass section is >105dB/W/M and is powered by a 500W ncore amplifier.
Your new play room would be ideal for a fully horn loaded system. The acoustics may be tough to tame though.
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They are my design, I also helped construct them. Voicing and DSP work is mine. The horns are a 26 or 28Hz flair, I don't remember which. Spacing to the floor is different for a half space or quarter space environment, it defines mouth opening. The woofers driving the bass horn are the 11" Revelators.
There is a bigger version that is 7' across the front, these ones are 5' square.
There is a bigger version that is 7' across the front, these ones are 5' square.
Thanks for sharing, I had previously seen the instagram you shared (which has some great pictures), but hadn't seen that internal image.
A for Ara (@a.for.ara) • Instagram photos and videos
Regarding the 1st post of this thread:
I have gone one step further, a prototype with mid and HF both open backed. It was OK. Good enough to scale up to a more permanent build - see picture near the start of this thread (prototype) and near the end (current version).
pattern control below 400Hz
I'm sure I've seen a thread where someone built small synergy type speakers, then added up-firing drivers to bring back (a controlled amount of) reflected sound. That is: reflected sound is not a universally reviled property.
My prototype was a 2" wideband driver + 6.5" midrange driver synergy clone. Both drivers were open backed. Setup was super easy, as shown in post (2) of the thread I linked above. The two drivers met up very nicely (I didn't need to fudge around with the layout to get more extension from the mid), and the 6.5" goes pretty low.
I've messed about with attenuating the back wave (layerts of fabric, pillows etc), and, from the front, it doesn't make any obvious difference.
The version in my living room is a 2-way OB (or U frame, or whatever you call it).
I listened to it for months like this. I know it could be better, but the interim version was good enough to trigger my procrastination
I only recently got around to connecting the sealed bass box to make it a 3-way.
The final, "perfect" version will have the mids installed, like in the prototype (to be a 4-way).
The box containing the synergy isn't expected to go <100Hz. It is oversized just for pattern control, not for LF extension. So I might make the "perfect" version as another U-frame, but with a couple of layers of acoustic pinboard or similar (rather than plywood) as the back panel, cos that's tidier than having the foam and diffusors in the room.
Limited bandwidth should be okay if it's merely a sub-woofer or woofer, no?
I agree about the OB part. Limited room interaction, less demands on space and ease of construction are the factors going for it.
Concept of reactance anulling has been pretty tough to wrap around my head thus far.
I don't find the concept of omni-directionality too appealing. Something about the lack of dispersion control. I believe Ohm also had to redesign their omnis to minimize wall interaction.
Thanks for the pictures. Except tapped horns, every other low frequency seems to demand its own special room or two.
G'day Phil
I completely agree that a low sensitivity bass section below a 100dB/W/M horn is missing the point. Team up a high sensitivity mid/high section with a suitable bass horn and the system will take you places just not possible with conventional systems, especially with some power on tap.
The Unity horn concept is pretty old now. I've had mine since 2001. The Synergy horn is just an iteration of the original Unity horns. I am surprised more people have not combined them with bass horns. The acoustic result can be quite special and also pleasing to the eye. The speaker below is a MEH with a bass horn wrapped around it. The bass section is >105dB/W/M and is powered by a 500W ncore amplifier.
Your new play room would be ideal for a fully horn loaded system. The acoustics may be tough to tame though.
That's gargantuan! What is the principle used and do you have a build thread?
Regarding the 1st post of this thread:
I have gone one step further, a prototype with mid and HF both open backed. It was OK. Good enough to scale up to a more permanent build - see picture near the start of this thread (prototype) and near the end (current version).
pattern control below 400Hz
I'm sure I've seen a thread where someone built small synergy type speakers, then added up-firing drivers to bring back (a controlled amount of) reflected sound. That is: reflected sound is not a universally reviled property.
My prototype was a 2" wideband driver + 6.5" midrange driver synergy clone. Both drivers were open backed. Setup was super easy, as shown in post (2) of the thread I linked above. The two drivers met up very nicely (I didn't need to fudge around with the layout to get more extension from the mid), and the 6.5" goes pretty low.
I've messed about with attenuating the back wave (layerts of fabric, pillows etc), and, from the front, it doesn't make any obvious difference.
The version in my living room is a 2-way OB (or U frame, or whatever you call it).
I listened to it for months like this. I know it could be better, but the interim version was good enough to trigger my procrastination
I only recently got around to connecting the sealed bass box to make it a 3-way.
The final, "perfect" version will have the mids installed, like in the prototype (to be a 4-way).
The box containing the synergy isn't expected to go <100Hz. It is oversized just for pattern control, not for LF extension. So I might make the "perfect" version as another U-frame, but with a couple of layers of acoustic pinboard or similar (rather than plywood) as the back panel, cos that's tidier than having the foam and diffusors in the room.
This is quite similar to what I a looking to build, except maybe an WTW configuration to compensate for lack of OB bass
It's simply a front loaded bass horn wrapped around a multiple entry waveguide. No build thread, it's a commercial product that I designed.
WOW.. Great work ..do you have a link to the bigger horns?
There are a few pictures of those ones half way down this page:
A for Ara
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These are three ways? I love the bottom exit bass horn and adjusting them up and down to fit them to the room. These are serious..
A for Ara on Instagram: “Casson and I using some come-alongs to hoist a 500lb speaker.”
A for Ara on Instagram: “Casson and I using some come-alongs to hoist a 500lb speaker.”
G'day Phil
I completely agree that a low sensitivity bass section below a 100dB/W/M horn is missing the point. Team up a high sensitivity mid/high section with a suitable bass horn and the system will take you places just not possible with conventional systems, especially with some power on tap.
The Unity horn concept is pretty old now. I've had mine since 2001. The Synergy horn is just an iteration of the original Unity horns. I am surprised more people have not combined them with bass horns. The acoustic result can be quite special and also pleasing to the eye. The speaker below is a MEH with a bass horn wrapped around it. The bass section is >105dB/W/M and is powered by a 500W ncore amplifier.
Your new play room would be ideal for a fully horn loaded system. The acoustics may be tough to tame though.
Another question. I understand Unity/Synergy designs are patented. You had to take permission before you built those horns?
It's not my living. I work full time in the aerospace industry, RF and Microwave engineering.
William (Cowanaudio),
DSP would be essential to getting something close to time alignment of the bass horn to the multiple entrant (mid/high) horn.
How far down were you able to push the "multiple entrant horn" at 7 feet across I am figuring in the low hundreds of Hz.
While I was using the bass horns I kept toying with the idea of building a bass/ mid horn. That transition from the sub, which you KNOW will be damn big, to a bass/bid horn is always a challenge.
DSP would be essential to getting something close to time alignment of the bass horn to the multiple entrant (mid/high) horn.
How far down were you able to push the "multiple entrant horn" at 7 feet across I am figuring in the low hundreds of Hz.
While I was using the bass horns I kept toying with the idea of building a bass/ mid horn. That transition from the sub, which you KNOW will be damn big, to a bass/bid horn is always a challenge.
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