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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

crossover design- depth of field
crossover design- depth of field
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Old 2nd November 2019, 12:48 PM   #11
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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Allen, I don’t know enough about it to present an argument but if you were to explain why not it might help shed some light?
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Old 2nd November 2019, 01:26 PM   #12
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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A comb filter will show this. Using the blue trace, +6dB with 0 degrees separation, -∞dB with 180 degree separation. When nulling, the slightest change causes the greatest variation in level but when summing, the variation is least.

When I wrote my first crossover simulator the first thing I did was chase phase. I had the two way matched to within 1 degree across the crossover region, before I decided to call it. Then I backed off to 5, 10, 20. My notes would be long gone now, but I changed my ways after that.

With some designs and situations, phase seems to come together well, but this is in combination with other things, so there is a bigger picture. One common concern is that drivers are only near each other, so phase may only match where you measured, then when it does it doesn't consider whether it best compensates the other angles with regards to room power.
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Old 2nd November 2019, 01:32 PM   #13
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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You ever try adjusting for/measuring @ lp? I know that’s a one on one basis but isn’t it the one that matters?
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Old 2nd November 2019, 01:44 PM   #14
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Yes I have, and no I don't believe so. For a time I'd use a listening position measurement and a clean speaker measurement together, equalising between the two, one peak at a time looking for those in room artefacts that could be 'fixed' without making things worse in other ways. Not very productive unfortunately, this led me to begin considering the room when I designed a speaker.
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Old 2nd November 2019, 01:54 PM   #15
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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I suppose persistence and blind luck may have paid off in my case......I’ll be able to tell soon how much ‘skill’ was involved as a new room and new speakers are in the works!

Drewan you might consider some form of dsp in the future......a couple years ago I was totally against it but now that I’ve experienced what it can do I’ve been researching my next steps.

Last edited by mountainman bob; 2nd November 2019 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 2nd November 2019, 02:06 PM   #16
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Best with that, I'll have a beer to your success.

My bass waveguide prototype badly needs a revision that I can't settle on a solution to. So I'm sizing up my tweeter for a cross at 500Hz using multiple entry port/s.

Here, measuring the cancellation notch/location.
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Old 2nd November 2019, 02:21 PM   #17
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I believe soundstage depth is a speaker/room issue, try different distances to the wall behind the speakers. Also, the baffle size seems to be important, small is better
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Old 2nd November 2019, 06:17 PM   #18
drewan is offline drewan  United Kingdom
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Many thanks to all.
Most seemed to think it was more a room issue, and GM's 'house' curves gave me ideas. Despite the system measuring almost ruler flat from 30-3k and then a slight rise of about 5dB to 20k at the listening position I decided to try bypassing the BSC part on the crossover and moved the speakers about 8in closer to the rear wall to compensate. Great result many thanks.
For those interested the peerless is in a 40 litre box (Qtc about.303)originally built as BR but now sealed, the satori in 18 litres the same, sealed but lined not stuffed giving a Qtc a little over 0.5.
I'm now more than ever convinced speaker crossovers need to be specifically designed for the room they are going to be in
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Old 2nd November 2019, 06:31 PM   #19
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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crossover design- depth of field
It is now time for anybody posting suggestion here to explain the relationship of their suggestion to perception on the z-axis.

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Old 2nd November 2019, 08:03 PM   #20
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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crossover design- depth of field
The OP question is why is depth missing from his otherwise satisfactory system?

Stereo kind of like oil paintings.

For an oil painting, the canvas is flat. The objects on the x- and y-axes are localizable by various familiar cues to perception. But the depth is "faked" using perceptual cues like interposition, perspective, familiar size, change of colour with distance, etc.

What are the cues that "fake" depth in stereo*?

B.
*actually, the situation with stereo is degenerate of oil painting because it is obviously just a single dimension of the x-axis while a canvas is x and y. So what cues are available to put y- and z-axes into your cognition?
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