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First time Lascala build advice.
First time Lascala build advice.
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Old 26th October 2019, 09:47 PM   #1
mcdaniels is offline mcdaniels  United States
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Default First time Lascala build advice.

Hello Everyone,

I've been reading on this forum and the klipsch forum regarding a diy la scala build. I have read many opinions on the klipschorn, la scala, jubilee, belle, voltis. Even some jbl builds, m2, 4350.

I plan on running an active eq/crossover, and an active powered t-line sub.

It seems a 2 way sytem is very popular (1 horn 1 bass bin), I will go 3 if you guys suggest.

I need some advice.

For the top should i go klipsch k510, k55m, or jbl 2430k D2?

D2 Dual Diaphragm Dual Voice Coil Compression Driver

KLIPSCH LA SCALA TWO K-55-M HORN DRIVERS PLUS HORNS !!!! | eBay

What driver, what horn?

For the la scala bass bin, what driver? Jbl or klipsch/Crites?

Envision 3 stacks, sub box same shape as la scala, la scala stacked on top sub, compression driver on top of that. Modern looking la scala sitting on top of sub.

Thanks for the advice.

Last edited by mcdaniels; 26th October 2019 at 11:26 PM. Reason: Words
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Old 26th October 2019, 10:30 PM   #2
picowallspeaker is online now picowallspeaker  Italy
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I guess you don't know what la scala is
BTW It's a theater in Milan, Italy Theater+ orchestra
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Old 26th October 2019, 11:27 PM   #3
mcdaniels is offline mcdaniels  United States
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That's fine...pick on the new guy.
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Old 27th October 2019, 04:35 AM   #4
altie is offline altie  United States
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Could be that most of the La Scala-using folks are over on community.klipsch.com. Too bad as I think it's an interesting project. I'd recommend looking into the JBL 2220 or similar predecessors of it. I think the D-130 or E-130 may have had underhung motors like the 2220 which would make them very, very low distortion within their narrow operating range of excursion. They are also extremely efficient - 101dB/1W/1m before you stick them in a horn.

You may be able to find those drivers cheap locally or get some needing a recone - I think JBL might still make recone kits or at least there are enough out there to last, but if you choose to go that route, check my assumption that you can get the recone kit first.
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Old 27th October 2019, 05:35 AM   #5
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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First time Lascala build advice.
JBL 2220 would give up alot of bass below cutoff vs K33. I used 2220H in the early 1990s in my K-horns and it was a tradeoff I migh not want with La Scala and its short path.


As a traditional 3-way - sometimes Altec 511 can be found cheap - I think the inexpensive (~$35) D270Ph PRV horn driver with screw-bolt on adapter would probably make an acceptable midhorn. (I've run K55V and University SAHF drivers on 511 as a midhorn and that sounded fine.)

it would be good to brace La Scala's mouth as the "flapping" of those sides introduces some modulation effects.

Hopefully there will be some help at the Klipsch Technical/Modifications forum. Ask them if there are any cheap midhorn solutioins for La Scala. (just the horn)

A low price 3-way build should be pretty good. It would be good to have a sizable midhorn and have it mounted on a good size baffle to damp ringing and support the wavefront. There should be suitable inexpensive tweeters or get a small compression driver and horn.to make one. The tweeter could be moved back towards the midhorn driver plane to improve blend and time response.


This is on one of those funky little horns. It should do better with K400/511 size.

I'd imagine a 4KHz crossover to the tweeter horn would be doable.

Click the image to open in full size.

The bass driver could be a lower Qts speaker than K33 type and that can cive somewehat more sensitivity but as there's usually less xmax, a loss of ultimate loudness below horn cutoff. (La Scale type rolloff below ~110Hz outdoors in half space). When a low Qts old school horn driver is employed, back chamber volume may be reduced to make it play flatter to cutoff and have less excursion below system rolloff.

Look at my Peavey FH1's response outdoors
Click the image to open in full size.

La Scala's nominal 58 liter back chamber can be vented with tradeoffs when using lower Qts drivers. The late DJK (Dennis Kleitsch) came up with a vented La Scala mod which used the upper horn box volume in conjunction with the regular back chamber
and tuned it pretty low. That was to be treated like a regular 6th order bass reflex using an underdamped 2nd order highpass filter to provide ~6dB boost at the vent tuning frequency. That along with room gain could provide some semblance of low bass.

PWK was pretty crafty about squeaking balanced performance with the K33 spec and about 54 ounce magnet slug.

Below are some sims of a vented La Scala with K33 spec. You can see how the added 2 cubic foot of back chamber
volume affects things plus that of active EQ

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by freddi; 27th October 2019 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 27th October 2019, 06:21 AM   #6
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Have you researched the newer coaxial compression drivers like BMS 4594ND and B&C DCX464 which cover 18kHz - 400Hz? I like the forward design challenges they present for SPL, room effects, directivity, and tone, which both measure well and please complex human hearing. With this wide coaxial frequency range, both an 18" woofer in a floor-ceiling MLTL, and an 18" sealed volume woofer with DSP equalization to the listener offer options for the mains. Subwoofers should be positioned and equalized to smooth room effects. Attemping to solve room effects by equalizing the mains can only make the sound worst.

Last edited by LineSource; 27th October 2019 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 27th October 2019, 07:58 AM   #7
GM is offline GM  United States
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Greets!

IF the HR sim someone posted is fairly accurate, the K33E is as good as it gets WRT horn loading, though no experience with any vintage Klipsch speakers beyond not being impressed with them overall.

Mids/HF horn wise, only WGs interest me, but a 400 Hz XO would be somewhat deeper than the mid bass horn, though recommend a mouth size ~the same size as the mid bass loaded with one of these new 3-400 Hz XO coax compression drivers seems a nice upgrade to Klipsch and keep it basically a two way.

Lacking compression loaded sub bass horns, 'subs' ideally need to be servo controlled to best match to a compression horn.

GM
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Old 27th October 2019, 08:26 AM   #8
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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First time Lascala build advice.
Ik should qualify the 2220 statement - if not driven hard in the deep bass it would work pretty well. They are getting old - the ferrite version might be in better shape.

LS in the sim below looks pretty good to 110Hz vs a sealed box the size of LS's back chamber. K33E has nearly 8mm of excursion while 2220 maybe 2.2 (?)

to my way of thinking a LS knockoff (3 way) drivers should cost no more than $200 per side - probably less if a 15" Eminence not too far from K33 comes up for sale.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 27th October 2019, 01:37 PM   #9
mcdaniels is offline mcdaniels  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altie View Post
Could be that most of the La Scala-using folks are over on community.klipsch.com. Too bad as I think it's an interesting project. I'd recommend looking into the JBL 2220 or similar predecessors of it. I think the D-130 or E-130 may have had underhung motors like the 2220 which would make them very, very low distortion within their narrow operating range of excursion. They are also extremely efficient - 101dB/1W/1m before you stick them in a horn.
Thanks altie, I have not looked into the 2220, will certainly check it out. My goal with the exception of the sub is efficiency, running on low wattage tube or class A. Ill dee how it pairs up with that D2 compression driver.

You may be able to find those drivers cheap locally or get some needing a recone - I think JBL might still make recone kits or at least there are enough out there to last, but if you choose to go that route, check my assumption that you can get the recone kit first.
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Old 27th October 2019, 01:51 PM   #10
mcdaniels is offline mcdaniels  United States
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JBL 2220hj specs for future reference.

Spec sheet
https://warehousesound.com/r/jbl2220.pdf
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