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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 18th October 2019, 05:01 PM   #11
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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Join Date: Oct 2012
In your xo sims:

- you may be able to get away with just 2nd order electric on the woofer
- you must look at the individual driver phase not the overall system phase and then try to get good alignment between them in the 2 xo regions
- also try some resistors in the shunt to ground leg to both shape the knee of the rolloff and to manipulate individual driver phase. Not always necessary but it can be extremely helpful and costs you pretty much nothing.

Also, it's still not clear if you have included the box effect, baffle step and diffraction sims into each driver's frequency and impedance responses. These are essential to get something that is going to be close to real life. So too is including the correct acoustic center distances for each driver. Without these, your xo sims are not going to be correct.

And I think it's only fair to tell you that even if you do everything right, your sims may still be off from reality in some way or another. If you are not looking for perfection, this may be fine with you. But to be assured of getting the most out of your design, you really need to measure each of your driver's FR and Z responses as well as their acoustic centers in the cabinets.

Having said that, for a 2.1 setup, I would be using a receiver that handled the sub xo frequencies and therefore dispense with the need for the 3rd woofer xo filter as well as the HP filter on the mid - but maybe that's not possible for you. In that case, I think you need to be very careful about where you place your subs - just somewhere in the corner will totally change the phase alignments (ie timing) which will likely completely change how the subs and the midwoofers sum.
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Old 18th October 2019, 09:53 PM   #12
ILikeFoodz is offline ILikeFoodz  United States
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Fyi, VituixCAD has a crossover optimizer built into it. It's in the view menu at the top left of the window (not sure why they didn't put it in the tools menu). Might be worth trying out, just make sure to save before running it.

It also has the ability to account for room simulation, diffraction, baffle step, etc, so you can try those features out if you want. All in all it's my go to program for speaker simulation (along with WinISD for quick and dirty box modelling).
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Old 23rd October 2019, 03:13 AM   #13
Dreadboot905 is offline Dreadboot905
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Ok so update time since its been a couple of days.

I tried doing a 2nd order pass on the woofer but it wasn't getting rid of the unusable frequency fast enough so I opted for a 3rd order.

Driver phase seems fine, just had to tweak the xo to iron out the dips.

Not real sure what you mean with the leg and knee roll off, I figure it has something to do with the rate of frequency roll off but again, not too sure.

This speaker set up is aimed at being a portable solution so I get that where they're located in an environment will change their phase but as long as they're good in terms of Driver, Crossover and Enclosure, im not too worried about the rest.

I tried messing with the optimiser but honestly the changes it made to the last SPL graph I uploaded was so minimal I didn't bother saving it so I'm guessing I've got the crossover fairly well optimised without having to use the tool xD, good to know in the future tho thanks

Ok so there's all the Replies sorted, lets talk about changes.
I'm redoing all the enclosures since a couple of you guys mentioned that I have no simulations on how the drivers would behave in XYZ enclosure and the issue I came up with is there's bugger all programs that Properly simulate TL enclosures soooo I scrapped it. .

I'm Designing the Sub-woofer Enclosure after Brian Steele's Boom Unit which actually uses the same Driver as I chose (wooo I'm Lazy!.. Kinda), I changed some stuff for my one but its about 80% Identical to his.
besides I'm pretty sure he goofed some T/S values when putting it into Hornresp.

Here's the Hornresp Stuff for people who are interested.
Hornresp Parms.png
Hornresp PWR.png

Going to redesign the Mids/Highs Enclosure as well but soon tm.
was looking into D'appolito Designs and getting a couple extra Mid-Woofers.

Anyway that's where I'm at atm, I'll try keep this updated and reply to questions/ideas as best as I can
thanks for all the help so far guys
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Old 23rd October 2019, 07:46 AM   #14
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Originally Posted by Dreadboot905 View Post
Not real sure what you mean with the leg and knee roll off,
Not jReave, but the leg was referring to connecting resistors across the driver, whereas the knee was referring to the filter response as shown on the plot where it turns downward.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 04:46 PM   #15
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
A picture might help. See attached (just some random 3-way I had saved).

Note the added resistors in the parallel legs as well. To see their effects, just add them to your modelling efforts and see what they do and whether or not they might be helpful in your situation.

Is the phase fine or does it "seem" fine. Maybe attach a pic with the individual driver phase so we can confirm their adequacy or not.

Still you have not mentioned whether you are including baffle effects and acoustic center info? Again, these are vitally important for accurate simming.

I also noticed the very large resistance on your woofer inductor. Lower that if you can by going with an iron core inductor instead of an air core. Quite a difference in cost and size as well.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg xo.jpg (74.2 KB, 18 views)
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