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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

beryllium vs the best soft domes
beryllium vs the best soft domes
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Old 14th October 2019, 02:45 PM   #1
hifijim is offline hifijim  United States
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Default beryllium vs the best soft domes

I am interested in peoples subjective evaluation of a good beryllium dome tweeters (such as Satori TW29B-B) compared to the very best soft domes (such as ScanSpeak D2904, Morel ST1108, Seas Excel.

To put this in context, I am planning to use a tweeter in an active system with a 200 mm wide baffle, crossed at 1.6k to 2.2k 4th order.

Thanks for any thoughts...

Jim
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Old 14th October 2019, 10:39 PM   #2
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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-depends on the specific tweeter.

Be is usually clearer with more "pin-point" imaging.


BTW, I've yet to hear a typical design loudspeaker with a 4th order high-pass that really portrayed depth well (..even in an active system).


If you want a hard dome with good extension and excursion there is BlieSMa and Transducer Labs (TL).

-you can get TL's in ceramic or carbon fiber for half the price. (..you'll have to search for subjective responses to these tweeters).

Products - Meniscus Audio
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Old 15th October 2019, 01:00 AM   #3
eriksquires is offline eriksquires  United States
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Good Be tweeters can be among the best. So can good AMTs.
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Old 15th October 2019, 01:49 AM   #4
Oneminde is offline Oneminde  Sweden
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BlieSMa is soon launching their T26 series that show really good dispersion and harmonic control. T26B-6 is the beryllium version in that series. The break up is above 40kHz. Comparing that to perhaps the SB Acoustics SB26STC/STAC which also has good dispersion. A soft dome I really like is the SEAS 27TFF, very detailed and open. Viawave have perhaps among the best ribbon tweeters on the market, very close in terms of sound to SBA Be, but is cheaper. And as a final input, Accuton C25-6-158 is perhaps the most silky smooth and effortless tweeter I've ever heard, not as detailed as a Be but damned good.

Hope that helps.
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Old 15th October 2019, 05:04 AM   #5
hifijim is offline hifijim  United States
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I appreciate everyone's thoughts. Thanks. The TL drivers were not even on my radar, so thanks for making me aware.

I plan to use the new Hypex ncore DSP-controlled 3 way amp. I am designing a speaker architecture frame-work that will allow easy experimentation in the future. I will experiment with various crossover topologies and baffle shapes, and also with various drivers.

Quote:
BTW, I've yet to hear a typical design loudspeaker with a 4th order high-pass that really portrayed depth well (..even in an active system).
I have heard that from others as well, and I am curious about that. It is one of the things I want to experiment with.
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Old 15th October 2019, 08:53 AM   #6
Zuhl is offline Zuhl  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
BTW, I've yet to hear a typical design loudspeaker with a 4th order high-pass that really portrayed depth well (..even in an active system).
Same here. I've found high order crossovers to lack depth and dynamics. I wish someone could offer a good explanation as to why.

Meanwhile I'll still try to use as few components as possible because I know if the design is good it will sound so much better.
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Old 15th October 2019, 10:16 AM   #7
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuhl View Post
Same here. I've found high order crossovers to lack depth and dynamics. I wish someone could offer a good explanation as to why.
If we talking about analogue and digital IIR filters then the difference between low order and high order filters is the timing, power response, and power handling.
With FIR filters, the timing can be as good as possible between the drivers, independently to the filter steepness.

I found low order filters as harsh at typical mid to high frequencies, but i like at low to mid frequencies. But may i heard the wrong drivers for the task, i don't know.

Timing is better (not with FIR) and the power response is usually smoother with a lower order filter, only the power handling is worse compared to higher orders.

Last edited by YSDR; 15th October 2019 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 15th October 2019, 12:53 PM   #8
hifijim is offline hifijim  United States
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The Hypex DSP technology uses biquad filter elements… I am fairly ignorant of how digital filtering works (I am a structural engineer, forgive me)...Any guess as to those biquad filters are finite impulse response or infinite impulse response???

Again, thanks for all the feedback.
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Old 15th October 2019, 12:59 PM   #9
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Hypex uses IIR filtering at the moment, the biquads works like analog filters.
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Old 15th October 2019, 03:49 PM   #10
digitalthor is offline digitalthor  Denmark
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Hmmm... I use 4 order LR - active IIR, for my 4 way - no problems with dynamics, clarity or the like...
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