SB Acoustics Textreme

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Dave Bullet

Member
Joined 2002
hifijim said:
The foamboard cabinets are not resonance free and at some frequencies there is some wall vibration. In addition, the driver recesses were crudely cut with a utility knife and it was hard to get the exact depth correct. The tweeter is recessed too deeply and the mid driver is not recessed enough. For a speaker stand I used a stack of boxes. All in all, not ideal.

....

I believe I could hear a more natural, relaxed, and realistic sound compared to the SB17CAC/SB26CDC satellite. ... The textreme drivers are equal to the ceramic drivers in terms of detail, resolution, and dynamics. But the textremes just seemed a little more natural.
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I think we've been engineering out test cabinets wrong :) foam and stack of boxes is the way to go :D
 
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AlexScan

Member
Joined 2011
hifijim said:
I have created a preliminary filter for these new textreme drivers.

These new textreme drivers will eventually replace the current satellites of my system. I built the foam-board enclosure as a prototype to experiment with. I built just one, so all measurements and listening is in mono.

My current system is an active 3 way with each side consisting of a 12 inch SB34NRX75-6 (sealed), 6 inch SB17CAC35-4, 1 inch tweeter SB26CDC-C00. I use a Hypex Fusion FA253 3-way amp. The big woofers are in their own cabinet, and the 6 inch and tweeter are in a stand mounted satellite. The amp is located in the stand. Crossovers are at 200 Hz BW3 and 2 kHz LR4. The Hypex amps have DSP capability, so the filters, EQ, and delay are all handled digitally.

The drivers required a very minimal amount of EQ within their pass band. The mid driver needed 8 dB of baffle step compensation, and a notch filter at 5 kHz to control the cone resonance. The tweeter needed a slight boost at 3.2k. As a starting point I am using BW3 at 200 Hz and LR4 at 2 kHz. There is 680 mm of delay between the woofer and the mid because the satellite is about 2 feet in front of the woofer cabinet. There is an additional 26 mm of delay between the mid and tweeter. The mid-tweeter delay was optimized by inverting the tweeter polarity and adjusting the delay to get the maximum null.

All of the following measurements were measured at 24 inches from the satellite, on an axis mid-way between the tweeter and mid driver. The first plot is the on-axis FR. The time window was 4.7 ms. I must admit that getting a good flat response was much easier with these drivers than it was with the SB ceramic drivers, mostly due to very forgiving nature of the Satori MW16TX.

The next plot is the Tone-Burst Energy Storage plot for the whole system. I am pleased with this performance. I posted this to show that the MW16TX resonances at 5k-up are easilly handled with proper filtering.

Everyone seems curious about how these new drivers sound. Listening in mono it sounded really good. It takes several minutes to switch all the wiring to go from one speaker to the other, and then load the other DSP file into the amps. This is not an ideal way to compare two speakers. I could not do a fair A/B comparison.

These textreme Satori drivers will need a real cabinet to reach their full potential. The foamboard cabinets are not resonance free and at some frequencies there is some wall vibration. In addition, the driver recesses were crudely cut with a utility knife and it was hard to get the exact depth correct. The tweeter is recessed too deeply and the mid driver is not recessed enough. For a speaker stand I used a stack of boxes. All in all, not ideal.

I listened as critically and as skeptically as I could, but in the end, I believe I could hear a more natural, relaxed, and realistic sound compared to the SB17CAC/SB26CDC satellite. The ceramic drivers have always had excellent dynamic contrast and are very detailed and revealing. The textreme drivers are equal to the ceramic drivers in terms of detail, resolution, and dynamics. But the textremes just seemed a little more natural. It is difficult to pinpoint exactly what I am hearing that is different, but I like it. I must stress that this is a highly subjective opinion at this point. I will be able to do a much better assessment once I assemble a pair of real cabinets.

Overall I am highly impressed with these drivers.
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Thank jim, I wait for you final project acheivement, but the sound of the textreme you describe was close to my experience with Papyrus Satori...

Maybe the Papyrus was more warm...
 
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42476

Disabled Account
Joined 2019
I got a wild hair and just ordered two pieces of the Monacor SPH135KEP-8 M/W. These were on sale and even including shipping from Europe it is still a good deal. This way; I can get some test boxes ready for the eventual release of the TexTreme MR13TX. This Monacor seems like it is well built and has a very wide band width (exactly what I crave).

I am very curious how it will sound compared to the Pluvia 7PHD or Satori MR16 or both together as I am using them now.

MONACOR: SPH-135KEP

Looking for a Monacor SPH-135KEP woofer? - SoundImports
 
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42476

Disabled Account
Joined 2019
That does seem opposite of what I would guess. I would like to know more about the new Be horn loaded tweeter because I need all the output I can possibly get starting at about 8KHz and up. Much above 15 KHz I can't hear anything; at 12 KHz or so; I need about 10 dB greater than the rest of the system at 5 KHz and below. This is exactly why I am using the Fostex T90A ST.

I'm curious if they will also have a horn loaded version of the TexTreme tweeter.

SATORI TW29BNWG-4 / Beryllium – Sbacoustics
 
LineSource

LineSource

Member
Joined 2003
drjlo said:
Dang, $426/each! For the price of a pair, one could buy some very decent speakers these days.
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"Price Check on isle 2"

SB26ADC-4 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter $51 {SB26STCN $33 is my choice}
SB17BAC35-4 6.2" Aluminum cone midbass sealed $71
SB23BAC45-8 8" Aluminum cone woofer can be sealed+equalized $110
SB23BAC45-8 8" Aluminum cone woofer can be sealed+equalized $110
GREAT TMWW 3-Way Total: $324 - $342
 
4

42476

Disabled Account
Joined 2019
yep, looks like a good thing; I would probably do two each smaller mids (13 or 15 size) and then a WMTMW config. I would like to do that in all TexTreme eventually as well. Probably not for me though; I have spent quite a bit on my current system. I did a WMTMW before with 8 in, 4 in and a ribbon tweet. One of the best sounding systems I ever did. I find it best to have the tweeter at approx. ear height; regardless of tweeter design. 1 meter is about right if I remember.
 
diyiggy

diyiggy

Disabled Account
Joined 2019
If they could not only create the WG but also gives the filter values (caps) to EQ it, I'm sure they will have sucess !

Altough It will make sense to keep low diameter casing with mini horn and also not as they already have (21rdnc, etc).... Folks want also narrow C2C designs possibility !


Typical 3W classic: but with closer center to center spacing due to the higher band pass window : around 500 hz to around 3K hz (1/2 wave length is around 6 cm)



SB21RDNC or smaller OW19 Peereless type tweeter (Seas also, etc) : 3/4" ; Morel have 1" horned tweeter with 74 mm diameter (Monsieur SB if you read me :) )

a 4" or 5" (SBTextrene for instance)

a 8" (or a6-7" SB Textrene break-up notched)
 
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rinx

Member
Joined 2007
Hi
I had chance to listen MW16TX in speaker mated with TW29BN. It was more than year ago, when I first listen Satori MW16P in same enclosure. We listened more than 4 hours and the owner is high level speaker crossover designer. Probably one of the best in here my country :)
We have same approach for what is good speaker. Same principles and what it have to be and what it can not be.
So new textreme - impression is very very good. Compared MW16P main difference for me was it can hold music tones longer and more wider. They sound so full or easy and beautiful. I have had very minimal experience in speakers. But here in that setup - there is nothing I am missing. So even I thought I will go for Kalasan project, definately I go over textreme. And probably also beryllium, tweeter. It is different from silk or ring domes. Beryllium just is capable doing things that silk doe snot. Fe. chrystal clear sound.
...aaaand shivers :)
 
4

42476

Disabled Account
Joined 2019
rinx, what is the crossover frequency and slope on this set up? If you don't know; that's OK. I like to cross higher than most folks; I don't care very much about beaming. I am more concerned with an extremely accurate reproduction of things like piano and violin overtones, harmonics, etc. What many people I think ignore; when you stick a crossover right in the most critical band; you introduce phase differences regardless of how well the crossover is designed. I think this smears the image and destroys the integrity of the signal. I'm talking about the finest nuance here. This is one of the exact reasons I am waiting so anxiously for the MR13TX mid; I want to use it from about 300 to 6000 Hz and avoid any typical crossover in the 1000 to 4000 Hz range. MANY people disagree with me on this but there is a reason for such a strong following in full range drivers; they avoid the need for any critical mid band crossover.

I also think the ideal size for this mid band is 3 1/2 to 5 1/4 inch with my strongest preference 4 to 4 1/2 inches. All else being equal, this cone size seems to be the least compromise. Mid bass can go low enough and high mids/low treble are extended enough to stay out of the problem zone...
 
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digitalthor

Member
Joined 2018
oldspkrguy said:
What many people I think ignore; when you stick a crossover right in the most critical band; you introduce phase differences regardless of how well the crossover is designed. I think this smears the image and destroys the integrity of the signal. I'm talking about the finest nuance here. This is one of the exact reasons I am waiting so anxiously for the MR13TX mid; I want to use it from about 300 to 6000 Hz and avoid any typical crossover in the 1000 to 4000 Hz range. MANY people disagree with me on this but there is a reason for such a strong following in full range drivers; they avoid the need for any critical mid band crossover.
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So..... what do you do with beaming? I mean - if you cross that high, then you'll end up having interesting issues with a narrow pattern from the midrange and then a more omni radiation from the tweeter. I believe that a more smooth integration between the midrange and the tweeter, is more important than most phase issues - not time alignment - cause that of course needs to be in place for the filter to work.
 
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