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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

SB Acoustics Textreme.
SB Acoustics Textreme.
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:17 AM   #621
Dave Bullet is offline Dave Bullet  New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifijim View Post
The foamboard cabinets are not resonance free and at some frequencies there is some wall vibration. In addition, the driver recesses were crudely cut with a utility knife and it was hard to get the exact depth correct. The tweeter is recessed too deeply and the mid driver is not recessed enough. For a speaker stand I used a stack of boxes. All in all, not ideal.

....

I believe I could hear a more natural, relaxed, and realistic sound compared to the SB17CAC/SB26CDC satellite. ... The textreme drivers are equal to the ceramic drivers in terms of detail, resolution, and dynamics. But the textremes just seemed a little more natural.
I think we've been engineering out test cabinets wrong foam and stack of boxes is the way to go
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"Usual diyaudio train wreck of dubious drivers and just the crossover to sort out. Well, how are you on crossovers and modelling? Pretty green, I reckon" - system7 (Steve)
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Old 1st December 2020, 02:54 AM   #622
hifijim is online now hifijim  United States
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touché
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Old 1st December 2020, 08:42 AM   #623
AlexScan is offline AlexScan  France
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Originally Posted by hifijim View Post
I have created a preliminary filter for these new textreme drivers.

These new textreme drivers will eventually replace the current satellites of my system. I built the foam-board enclosure as a prototype to experiment with. I built just one, so all measurements and listening is in mono.

My current system is an active 3 way with each side consisting of a 12 inch SB34NRX75-6 (sealed), 6 inch SB17CAC35-4, 1 inch tweeter SB26CDC-C00. I use a Hypex Fusion FA253 3-way amp. The big woofers are in their own cabinet, and the 6 inch and tweeter are in a stand mounted satellite. The amp is located in the stand. Crossovers are at 200 Hz BW3 and 2 kHz LR4. The Hypex amps have DSP capability, so the filters, EQ, and delay are all handled digitally.

The drivers required a very minimal amount of EQ within their pass band. The mid driver needed 8 dB of baffle step compensation, and a notch filter at 5 kHz to control the cone resonance. The tweeter needed a slight boost at 3.2k. As a starting point I am using BW3 at 200 Hz and LR4 at 2 kHz. There is 680 mm of delay between the woofer and the mid because the satellite is about 2 feet in front of the woofer cabinet. There is an additional 26 mm of delay between the mid and tweeter. The mid-tweeter delay was optimized by inverting the tweeter polarity and adjusting the delay to get the maximum null.

All of the following measurements were measured at 24 inches from the satellite, on an axis mid-way between the tweeter and mid driver. The first plot is the on-axis FR. The time window was 4.7 ms. I must admit that getting a good flat response was much easier with these drivers than it was with the SB ceramic drivers, mostly due to very forgiving nature of the Satori MW16TX.

The next plot is the Tone-Burst Energy Storage plot for the whole system. I am pleased with this performance. I posted this to show that the MW16TX resonances at 5k-up are easilly handled with proper filtering.

Everyone seems curious about how these new drivers sound. Listening in mono it sounded really good. It takes several minutes to switch all the wiring to go from one speaker to the other, and then load the other DSP file into the amps. This is not an ideal way to compare two speakers. I could not do a fair A/B comparison.

These textreme Satori drivers will need a real cabinet to reach their full potential. The foamboard cabinets are not resonance free and at some frequencies there is some wall vibration. In addition, the driver recesses were crudely cut with a utility knife and it was hard to get the exact depth correct. The tweeter is recessed too deeply and the mid driver is not recessed enough. For a speaker stand I used a stack of boxes. All in all, not ideal.

I listened as critically and as skeptically as I could, but in the end, I believe I could hear a more natural, relaxed, and realistic sound compared to the SB17CAC/SB26CDC satellite. The ceramic drivers have always had excellent dynamic contrast and are very detailed and revealing. The textreme drivers are equal to the ceramic drivers in terms of detail, resolution, and dynamics. But the textremes just seemed a little more natural. It is difficult to pinpoint exactly what I am hearing that is different, but I like it. I must stress that this is a highly subjective opinion at this point. I will be able to do a much better assessment once I assemble a pair of real cabinets.

Overall I am highly impressed with these drivers.
Thank jim, I wait for you final project acheivement, but the sound of the textreme you describe was close to my experience with Papyrus Satori...

Maybe the Papyrus was more warm...
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Old 4th December 2020, 07:16 AM   #624
Dreew is offline Dreew  Moldova
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Where can I find free DIY textreme projects?
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Old 4th December 2020, 07:41 AM   #625
bambadoo is offline bambadoo  Norway
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Seen this?
Test Bench: SB Acoustics Satori TW29TXN-B-4 TeXtreme Diaphragm Tweeter | audioXpress
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Old 4th December 2020, 01:57 PM   #626
42476 is offline 42476
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I got a wild hair and just ordered two pieces of the Monacor SPH135KEP-8 M/W. These were on sale and even including shipping from Europe it is still a good deal. This way; I can get some test boxes ready for the eventual release of the TexTreme MR13TX. This Monacor seems like it is well built and has a very wide band width (exactly what I crave).

I am very curious how it will sound compared to the Pluvia 7PHD or Satori MR16 or both together as I am using them now.

MONACOR: SPH-135KEP

Looking for a Monacor SPH-135KEP woofer? - SoundImports
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Old 4th December 2020, 03:09 PM   #627
Bassivus is offline Bassivus  Serbia
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I was expecting quite the opposite: "comparing the TW29TXN-B-4 to a high-end beryllium dome tweeter, I thought that in terms of detail and definition, TeXtreme is very close, with the beryllium sounding a bit "warmer" and the TeXtreme a bit more forward"
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Old 4th December 2020, 03:19 PM   #628
42476 is offline 42476
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That does seem opposite of what I would guess. I would like to know more about the new Be horn loaded tweeter because I need all the output I can possibly get starting at about 8KHz and up. Much above 15 KHz I can't hear anything; at 12 KHz or so; I need about 10 dB greater than the rest of the system at 5 KHz and below. This is exactly why I am using the Fostex T90A ST.

I'm curious if they will also have a horn loaded version of the TexTreme tweeter.

SATORI TW29BNWG-4 / Beryllium – Sbacoustics
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Old 4th December 2020, 03:39 PM   #629
drjlo is offline drjlo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldspkrguy View Post
Satori TW29BNWG-4 Beryllium Dome Tweeter with Waveguide

Dang, $426/each! For the price of a pair, one could buy some very decent speakers these days.
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Old 4th December 2020, 03:44 PM   #630
42476 is offline 42476
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yep! I would probably prefer a RAAL for that much money. Someone said they thought the new horn Be sounded BETTER than the RAAL...I sure hope it's as least as good for that kind of money!
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