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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 13th February 2020, 02:41 PM   #131
soundbloke is offline soundbloke  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celef View Post
what about this technology, can it be a solution?

http://www.embracingsound.com/Old/do...echSummary.pdf
This is not new. It works well but it is not the best way of doing it. Look up "stereo dipole" and you will find that it is just "narrow angle" stereo. (Stereo dipole is an unfortunate name, however, because all stereo systems have an inherent dipole). We have gone way off thread, however.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:37 PM   #132
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oh, sorry for going off topic
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:39 PM   #133
soundbloke is offline soundbloke  United Kingdom
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no need to be sorry! Just there are many threads on here dedicated to those issues...
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:58 PM   #134
Pharos is offline Pharos  United Kingdom
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I am in a position in which I feel that repeatedly assertions have been made, and which are done with apparently great authority as though impervious to any contrary view, and which seem to dismiss any contrary views.

However they lack a detailed and analytical account supporting their supposed validity.

I do hope that they are not just a stance which is not able to be substantiated by a clear explanation and foundational analysis, preferably with references.

Last edited by Pharos; 13th February 2020 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:05 PM   #135
soundbloke is offline soundbloke  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
I am in a position in which I feel that repeatedly assertions have being made, and which are done with apparently great authority as though impervious to any contrary view, and which seem to dismiss any contrary views.

However they lack a detailed and analytical account supporting their supposed validity.

I do hope that they are not just a stance which is not able to be substantiated by a clear explanation and foundational analysis, preferably with references.
None of my comments are impervious to criticism of any kind: I seek only the truth. But any criticism needs to be backed up by an equal amount of knowledge or experience for it to withstand a suitably rigorous response. I always try to provide the necessary technical detail and my posts are normally backed up with seminal references for the interested reader to pursue if they wish. Is there anything in particular you wish to debate?
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Old 14th February 2020, 11:19 PM   #136
soundbloke is offline soundbloke  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
I am in a position in which I feel that repeatedly assertions have been made, and which are done with apparently great authority as though impervious to any contrary view, and which seem to dismiss any contrary views.

However they lack a detailed and analytical account supporting their supposed validity.

I do hope that they are not just a stance which is not able to be substantiated by a clear explanation and foundational analysis, preferably with references.
Bump?
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:18 PM   #137
Pharos is offline Pharos  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by soundbloke View Post
None of my comments are impervious to criticism of any kind: I seek only the truth. But any criticism needs to be backed up by an equal amount of knowledge or experience for it to withstand a suitably rigorous response. I always try to provide the necessary technical detail and my posts are normally backed up with seminal references for the interested reader to pursue if they wish. Is there anything in particular you wish to debate?
I obviously need to do a lot of reading in order to be able to deal with the points you raise.
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:12 AM   #138
NATDBERG is offline NATDBERG  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by soundbloke View Post

What you are missing is that stereo requires hearing both the left and right channels in both ears. The notion of the left and right stereo channels corresponding ideally to left and right ears is a myth. The combing at higher frequencies, however, is a detrimental side effect.
That's not true.

Take a binaural recording: it's a stereo recording with two tracks. For the 3D illusion to work, you cannot have the left and right channels being heard in both ears. That is why binaural doesn't work on speakers - it necessarily requires the ears to be isolated from each other and to be fed specifially recorded tracks. The crossfeed and according head transfer function is part of the recording..

That can be also entirely created via DSP with mono tracks mixed in a 3-dimensional soundfield as part of the normal mixing stage - no longer limted to simple stereo pan-pots or rough and ready phase techniques. The illusion will collapse if both ears can hear both channels - it is necssary for them to be isolated.

Any combing or other filtering effects that are part of the natural, everyday listing to the world are built-in to the recorded tracks whether via DSP or with a binaural dummy head.

As I say, the "in the head" sound from listening on headphones is because it has been mixed/mastered for the usual speaker setup... when music is mixed for headphones, you create what you want and intend with isolated ears. Granted, in the past, the practicalities of recording dictated that it was easier to mix for a stereo soundfield to be replayed on a hifi setup .. which then doesn't work on headphones in the same way. Not so much these days.

You will find albums and tracks being remastered with 3D soundfields for listening on headphones only (because of the isolation). Tidal has a section for them.

Ironlically, mixing for heaphones but using studio monitors to do that mixing would benefit from monitors with a dip so that the engineer doesn't try to EQ out the peak from stereo speakers (because that peak wont be there on headphones).

Last edited by NATDBERG; 16th February 2020 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:55 AM   #139
shrubs is offline shrubs
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Upon doing some reading it was going in to some detail about "the dips" in various speakers. Its said these do experience some dip. Dip or no dip, I like them
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Old 16th February 2020, 11:52 AM   #140
soundbloke is offline soundbloke  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATDBERG View Post
Take a binaural recording: it's a stereo recording with two tracks
You have fundamentally misunderstood how stereo works and are confusing it with binaural methods.

I repeat that stereo works (at low frequencies) only because both channels are heard in both ears.
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