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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Help me pick my next DIY Bookshelf
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Old 21st September 2019, 06:48 AM   #1
mccarty350 is offline mccarty350
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Default Help me pick my next DIY Bookshelf

I've tried to read up on all the existing threads in this genre between audioholics, audiokarma, and DIY audio.

Here's what I've got:
C-Notes...was very impressed by them when I built them a few weeks ago. As of this AM a set of Carmody Classix II arrived and I completed them about an hour ago. I'm super impressed by both, the Classix II are on a whole new level which makes me feel there is a lot of potential in DIY as has been voiced many times from a price/performance plus pride of building perspective.

I have a lot of full systems of note including Linkwitz LX521, KEF107, etc. but I realized I really do spend the majority of my time at my computer desk so I have set out to build a near field system to enjoy music here. I've got a rolls box to bring in a small M&K 70B dual 8" sub to supplement the bass and my audio all comes direct from my PC into a DAC and into a rolls box followed by a McCormack DNA .5.

So what should I build next? Here are some things that may factor in:

End to end kit and components for less than $500 for the pair is the next step unless there is something incredibly compelling 'right above' that price point.


1. Has to be good for near field listening. I think that from what I have read this eliminates both of the HiVi kids as one is rumored to not be greatest for extreme nearfield listening and the other is a larger 3 way that wouldn't image or be suitable. I have also heard that the Speedters won't be stellar for that purpose.

2. I don't want a ruthless monitor. I picked up some JBL 308P's and they were so accurate that any imperfect music sounded terrible. I want to be able to enjoy all kinds of music so the attribute of being over ruthless like that is not something I desire. Accurate - yet. So much so that distortion guitar is so grainy/granular that i can see it's component atoms is not something I want.

3. I'm okay with non-flat response if it sounds good for music - that's what these are for, not for recording purposes.

4. At minimum I want to be able to buy a precut baffle board, I don't want to have to route one do round-overs, etc.

5. If it has it's own flat pack or will fit into an existing cabinet sold at parts express, denovo, etc. that would be a bonus.

Thoughts on what's out there that might fit the bill?

Thoughts on the existing things I see...and I'm assuming MT is the only option for near field or the image would break up as soon as I went to an MTM or some such.

1. Overnight Sensations: Lateral to the C-Notes and another Carmody design. Not likely a step up from the Classix II.

2. Parts Express Dayton BR-1. Not many people have spoken to or compared these to other things but maybe they are lateral? Maybe with Murphy Mods they are slightly superior? I'm just speculating.

3. Affordable Accuracy Monitor permutation of the BR1 ... seems like they are not being made any more, when I checked Philharmonic Audio's site they were not shipping product.

4. GR Research XLS Encore: Seems like it is likely lateral to the classix II but different? Again, this is what the thread is for, level set me and give me comparisons and advice.

5. Parts Express Samba MT?
6. Parts Express Tritrix MT?
7. Parts Express Hitmaker: From everything I'm reading is monitor oriented and may be 'ruthless'
8. Some form of waveguide based design? Diy Soundgroup HTM-8 may fit the bill but I don't know how it would do nearfield or if it would be ruthless/sound like the JBL 308P that i returned.
9. Dipole? DIY soundgroup Ion 4 Plus?
10. DIY soundgroup volts?
11. DIY soundgroup Apollo 7 MT?
12. DIY soundgroup Helix Dome MT?
13. DIY Soundgroup The Speedster?
14. DIY Soundgroup S2000....likely a step down a bit or at best lateral?
15. Meniscus Armonicos?
16. Meniscus Blues?
17. Meniscus Continuum II?
18. Meniscus Docere?
19. Meniscus Nephilia?
20. Meniscus Piccolo?
21. Meniscus Soprano?
22. Meniscus Spitfire seem like they would be really interesting.
23. Meniscus Tributes
24. Madisound SR71 (would this be an upgrade? Lots of repeat complaints of shrill highs)
25. Madisound Seas Loki...coaxial...might be interesting but I read NOTHING about them.
26. Madisound Seas Adun
27. Madisound Zaph Audio ZA 5.2
28. Madisound Seas Mimir 2
29. Hivi DIY 2.2A...keeping hearing this isn't good for near field.


I know that's pretty exhaustive but hopefully there's even more out there that I'm missing. If there are consumer/completed speakers on the used market I should be looking at I'd look outside of DIY but the value from DIY is so great that I still might be better building regardless.

Thanks all and I'm just beyond excited by DIY audio!

John
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Old 21st September 2019, 06:47 PM   #2
mccarty350 is offline mccarty350
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Update:. Seems like br1 is not an upgrade from reviews preferring the cheaper overnight sensations. Seems like the two way hivi may be decent. Any feedback from owners of any of the models in my post?
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Old 22nd September 2019, 12:14 AM   #3
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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If you have 2 amplifiers available, a $600 budget gets you into DSP.

For $205 you can purchase a MiniDSP 2x4HD, which will provide high functionality(FIR filters + time delay + bass boost) crossovers for a pair of high quality 2-way monitors.

$148 Satori MW16P-4 midbass + $33 SB26STCN-4 tweeter + $205 MiniDSP = $567
+ $40 wood stuff for low diffraction cabinet like Troels Illuminator(DSP handles time alignment)

OTHERWISE: look for a passive crossover design with a stepped baffle for time alignment like Troels SBAcoustics 61-NAC (Copyright 2016 Troels Gravesen) with +LR2 -LR2 crossover circuits.

Using
$148 Satori MW16P-4 midbass
AND
$33 SB26STCN-4 tweeter
OR
$58 SB29RDC-4
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Old 22nd September 2019, 01:40 AM   #4
mccarty350 is offline mccarty350
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I've already built a Linkwitz LX521 for my primary system, that's the only reason I didn't include the LXmini on my list, I've already had a taste of that sound and I love it. Great choice and recommendation however!

Glad that there's another Linkwitz fan here
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Old 22nd September 2019, 01:59 AM   #5
StewartH83 is offline StewartH83  England
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I recommend you check out Audioexcite.com
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Old 22nd September 2019, 02:02 AM   #6
mccarty350 is offline mccarty350
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OMG how could I not have known this site existed? Thank you so much! Diving in right now!
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Old 22nd September 2019, 06:13 AM   #7
classicalfan is offline classicalfan  United States
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You have a major contradiction between your stated requirements and half of the kits on the list. Specifically requirement No. 4:

"At minimum I want to be able to buy a precut baffle board, I don't want to have to route one do round-overs, etc. "

Only the kits you listed from Parts Express and DIY Soundgroup are available with precut baffle boards. To the best of my knowledge none of those on your list from Meniscus or Madisound are supplied with baffles.

There is one, however, from Madisound that is not on your list and comes with a complete prepainted cabinet. The SB Acoutics Micro 2-Way might be just what you are looking for and it fits nicely into your budget. The small size might make it ideal for desktop as well.

Personally I would put the money into the drivers and make the cabinet myself. I've done that with Jeff Bagby's Piccolo from Meniscus and am extremely pleased. They sound to me even better than I expected. Other very good choices from Bagby for you might be the Soprano and Continuum II. But again, you're going to have to build the cabinets yourself or have someone else do it for you.

Last edited by classicalfan; 22nd September 2019 at 06:28 AM.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 01:33 PM   #8
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Any of Jeff Bagby's designs would be good. I've built a version of the Soprano and Tributes and the Soprano would be the pick for nearfield as that's how I use them.

Don't dismiss fullrange for computer use.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 03:27 PM   #9
mccarty350 is offline mccarty350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicalfan View Post
You have a major contradiction between your stated requirements and half of the kits on the list. Specifically requirement No. 4:

"At minimum I want to be able to buy a precut baffle board, I don't want to have to route one do round-overs, etc. "

Only the kits you listed from Parts Express and DIY Soundgroup are available with precut baffle boards. To the best of my knowledge none of those on your list from Meniscus or Madisound are supplied with baffles.

There is one, however, from Madisound that is not on your list and comes with a complete prepainted cabinet. The SB Acoutics Micro 2-Way might be just what you are looking for and it fits nicely into your budget. The small size might make it ideal for desktop as well.

Personally I would put the money into the drivers and make the cabinet myself. I've done that with Jeff Bagby's Piccolo from Meniscus and am extremely pleased. They sound to me even better than I expected. Other very good choices from Bagby for you might be the Soprano and Continuum II. But again, you're going to have to build the cabinets yourself or have someone else do it for you.
I'm wholly lucid about the contradiction, I chose to be exhaustive in the hopes that someone would have a baffle board option or a reference to a denovo orderable baffle that would be a suitable work around. I'm game to make the cabinet with the exception of the baffle...I don't have the tools or the skills. I do have the tools and skills to just cut the rest of the cabinet however. Of the ones you have listed which have you owned? The piccolo? The Continuum II is out of what I spend for now but from my understanding their are a modernized LS3/5a which is super compelling.

I didn't even notice that the sb acoustics mini kits came with cabinets...that is compelling.

What are your thoughts on either of the hivi options the 2.2 and 3.1? For the price and what you get they really seem interesting. If I went for the 3 way stand mount with the ribbon I could set up some stands a few feet out from my computer desk and eliminate the completely near field caveat.
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Old 22nd September 2019, 03:30 PM   #10
mccarty350 is offline mccarty350
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So between the soprano and tributes you preferred the soprano? Do you leverage a sub?
a
I considered full range but looking at the frequency response curves I don't think I would like the diminished high roll-off. At 46 and after listening to test tones for now I can hear about to 15khz and it seems like most of the full rangers roll off around 10k or a little above but this is purely speculative on my part.
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