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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Yet another cost effective main speakers build
Yet another cost effective main speakers build
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:12 PM   #21
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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I've just started using my tracer in a new system and I think the results are off in frequency. I just retraced in my old system and here are the files.
Attached Files
File Type: txt PRV10.txt (18.3 KB, 5 views)
File Type: txt PRV10_Z.txt (18.3 KB, 3 views)
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:57 PM   #22
JRiv is offline JRiv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
I've just started using my tracer in a new system and I think the results are off in frequency. I just retraced in my old system and here are the files.

Thanks AllenB, I've grabbed your latest FRD/ZMA files and will play with them asap on XSim, also I will try to upload the D280Ti + LTH102 REW graph soon.

VituixCAD seems like a very handy program to start learn with as well, thanks again for the valuable and useful information.

Regards
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:02 PM   #23
JRiv is offline JRiv
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Hi folks, just getting some fun here now, I was just playing around with VituixCAD and I did manage to trace the D280Ti-S manufacturer FR data image since it has similar low-end response, then I started from an off-the-shelf 24db/oct LR crossover calculator and managed to get some average results on XSim with this drivers.

Between I will still make the final REW test on this driver and horn as I previously denoted, then re-try again on XSim regardless if this system will be fully active.

Regards
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 10W650A_&_D280Ti-S_Default_PRV_Data.jpg (112.0 KB, 240 views)
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Old 23rd September 2019, 12:14 AM   #24
JRiv is offline JRiv
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Hi, just a small update of the build progress.
As the weather was in favor today, I've started to routing the baffle holes and cutting the top, bottom and the braces in the table saw.

The cabinet will consist of two types of MDF material bonded together as previously denoted, the standard 16mm MDF(the yellowish colored) will be the outer, and the 15mm MDF supposedly furniture grade/pinus radiata(brown colored) in the inner of the cabinet, since it feels more like a heavy/dense cardboard, so it may be better damping material for the inner I think, also two 15mm MDF windows braces per cabinet.

The box weight ended at 60Lbs without the drivers, but more to come during the week hopefully.
Enclosure_Design_Preview.png

Regards
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190922_151142775.jpg (287.3 KB, 180 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190922_151201396.jpg (483.4 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190922_151238904.jpg (178.8 KB, 187 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190922_161544604_HDR.jpg (249.5 KB, 169 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190922_171342974.jpg (285.2 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190922_171358610_HDR.jpg (303.9 KB, 19 views)
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Old 9th October 2019, 12:31 AM   #25
JRiv is offline JRiv
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Hi there, here's an update on the build progress.

Had some time and started to assemble the boxes with Titebond III and stainless wood screws since I don't have large enough clamps, but had good results in the past with it besides the extra work drilling pilot holes countersunk etc.

Also decided to put #10-32 Hurricane Nuts with epoxy for the LTH102 horns to bring some strength and reliability, as I'm pretty sure this is the part that I will play with more due to the upgradeitis condition.

P.S.
Aafter locally auditioning the PRV D290Py(polyimide diaphragm) on few tracks, I quickly started missing the HF extension, although they can go lower than the D280Ti, so I think what I like most is what some people call it crisp, or just opposed to soft/mellow, so clearly an area which boils down to personal preferences, so another lesson learned on not to buy parts based on majority users preferences.

Finally just bought the RPV D280Ti-B(Bolt-on version) as don't liked the idea of the adapter between the horn and driver at the end, but will keep the D280Ti-S for future Econowave style bookshelf's project.


All build progress images HERE



Here are some pictures(more soon):
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20191004_130813725.jpg (153.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191004_130827885.jpg (97.4 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191005_165041934.jpg (120.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191006_134119164.jpg (79.1 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191006_135722396.jpg (108.9 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191006_145350907_HDR.jpg (110.6 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191006_145605760.jpg (77.6 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191006_153434765.jpg (96.3 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191008_121615703.jpg (133.8 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191004_141951436.jpg (508.9 KB, 23 views)

Last edited by JRiv; 9th October 2019 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Added album link
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Old 10th October 2019, 09:49 PM   #26
JRiv is offline JRiv
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Hello, here are more images of the finally assembled enclosures.

So again since I'm a bit picky as usual, I just put #6-32 T-Nuts(with epoxy) as I can see myself testing different mid/woofers too, fortunately I never use power tools to screw-in my drivers, hence I've never had any issues with either Hurricane or T-Nuts being to spin or to came out, so understand why some hate them, between my preferred ones are the T-Nuts with 2/3 hole flanges or inserts for subs.

Now the last step is the sanding and wood-filling to proceed with the laminate, hopefully they will turn out well as I'm not even close to average at terminations.

Regards
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20191009_124204831.jpg (157.6 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191010_095404969.jpg (80.4 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191010_114920986.jpg (111.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191010_132900241.jpg (164.5 KB, 7 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_20191010_132917395.jpg (118.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191010_134702764.jpg (226.2 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191010_134755068.jpg (220.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191010_134804731_HDR.jpg (193.0 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191009_124213580.jpg (92.2 KB, 22 views)
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Old 11th October 2019, 07:12 PM   #27
JRiv is offline JRiv
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Hello, so I did take some measurements, and it looks like no matter what mid/woofer I throw/test, I will always had the hard to tame peak and valleys below around 610Hz, OTOH even with no PEQ/Delay the high frequency is a breeze to tame and flatten out with a nice extended HF.

Unfortunately there is too near stuff including a heavy subwoofer at the left side of the speaker, a bed in the back plus the rear wall at just few inches behind the speaker, so targeting flat response in this full and tiny room will be impossible.

I'm thinking since the speakers will be crossed between 60~80Hz most of the time, considering leaving the port at ~4" long and adding more polyfill liner, as it has nice midbass punch at the 40'ish Hz+ even it was unexpected(maybe some in-room gain), so I could use the speakers with no subs at late night listening plus the phase shift at port will be way below crossover point, but I'm up for suggestions to test.

Regards

Here are some images:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20191011_090609619.jpg (78.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191011_090635025.jpg (67.8 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191011_092411584.jpg (86.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191011_094726583.jpg (260.9 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191011_125914538.jpg (320.4 KB, 18 views)
File Type: png Compare (copy).png (102.6 KB, 30 views)
File Type: png Stock-Meassure-No-EQ-No-Delay.png (63.9 KB, 25 views)
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Old 11th October 2019, 07:56 PM   #28
David Morison is offline David Morison  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
You mean like this?
Allen, sorry for the late input but I just noticed after JRiv mentioned the notch at 600Hz that your VCad import has managed to drop it to nearer 400Hz.
It looks like this may be because you seem to have started your trace from 10Hz rather than 20Hz where PRV's graph actually starts.
FWIW,
David.
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Old 11th October 2019, 08:00 PM   #29
David Morison is offline David Morison  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRiv View Post
Hello, so I did take some measurements, and it looks like no matter what mid/woofer I throw/test, I will always had the hard to tame peak and valleys below around 610Hz, OTOH even with no PEQ/Delay the high frequency is a breeze to tame and flatten out with a nice extended HF.
The 610Hz dip seems to be inherent in the driver as it's clearly there in the manufacturer's own curve, so that you'll have to live with.
Generally, narrow dips are less obvious than peaks however, so you may get away with it.
Some of the other peaks may be either internal box resonances or room resonances, so if you can manage to try at least moving a speaker around for a measurement session you should be able to see if the peaks stay at the same frequencies or not. If so, they're likely box issues, if they move to different freq's, they'll be position/room related.

HTH,
David.
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Old 11th October 2019, 08:45 PM   #30
JRiv is offline JRiv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morison View Post
The 610Hz dip seems to be inherent in the driver as it's clearly there in the manufacturer's own curve, so that you'll have to live with.
Generally, narrow dips are less obvious than peaks however, so you may get away with it.
Some of the other peaks may be either internal box resonances or room resonances, so if you can manage to try at least moving a speaker around for a measurement session you should be able to see if the peaks stay at the same frequencies or not. If so, they're likely box issues, if they move to different freq's, they'll be position/room related.

HTH,
David.

Hi David, thanks for the tips really appreciated, you are right about the dip around 610Hz at woofer manufacturer response curve, I though that it will go away with the speaker boxed, but indeed will need to tame it with some PEQ.

About the other peaks, it does looks like some bad room reflects due all the stuff around as you mentioned, since the speakers were upside down on top of the subwoofer first, and the measurements where much worse and more centered in the measurements response.

Then after moving the box to the floor and put 2 pillows in the floor between the mic and the speaker, the measurements looked better, also funny enough my previous box with 3/4" MDF also showed similar results with this same woofer.

Also despite this enclosure being all 1.25" walls and braced, I'm considering put enough polyfill to minimize internal standing waves and make new measurements and see what happens.

Regards
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