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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Choosing the right 5" midrange
Choosing the right 5" midrange
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Old 8th September 2019, 09:49 PM   #31
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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If the published distortion profile is to be believed and I have no reason not to than the BMS 5" is cleaner between 250 and 2500Hz than practically any other similar sized driver.

It would look ok if it were taken at 1W but at 100W, close to Xmax, it is exemplary.
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Old 9th September 2019, 08:02 AM   #32
MIJK is offline MIJK  Sweden
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Yeah, the BMS looks quite good. Only thing thats sticking out is the break up.

I went thru my notes on drivers and came across the Aurum Cantus AC-130F1. It fits what I want pretty good. Reasonably flat and extended FR. Distortion seems good to.

Anyone used this driver with any others in the group of considered drivers?

Funny, I felt that when I started this thread that the options fore med were somewhat limited at 5" and lots of options in 4" & 6,5". Not quite so. Some seriously good recommendations you guys have given me, thanks!

And please, let the recommendations continue

Well, lets say it will be a 2x8"-5"-1" speaker, or I decide it should be like this.

Then, for simplicitys sake, let's say 'll choose an 90db@8ohm driver as mid, then I'm going to need to look at 8" drivers that are at 87db@4ohm, as they would be connected series, and the resistance would be 8ohm for the pair and the sensitivity would be 90db, also for the pair? Right?

The 5" 8ohm@90db and 8" 4ohm@87db are only to make it easy for me to understand and is an example.

I really really should know this by now, but I always get it wrong, or feel like I'm getting it wrong at least.

This is anyway how I've been thinking it should be, and is a part of why I would like to have sensitive mid range driver.

It might be good for me to get this right here and now before I delve too far into the game of finding suitable drivers for a 1x5" mid to 2x8" woofers.
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Old 9th September 2019, 09:38 AM   #33
andy19191 is online now andy19191  Europe
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Well, lets say it will be a 2x8"-5"-1" speaker, or I decide it should be like this.

Then, for simplicitys sake, let's say 'll choose an 90db@8ohm driver as mid, then I'm going to need to look at 8" drivers that are at 87db@4ohm, as they would be connected series, and the resistance would be 8ohm for the pair and the sensitivity would be 90db, also for the pair? Right?

The 5" 8ohm@90db and 8" 4ohm@87db are only to make it easy for me to understand and is an example.

I really really should know this by now, but I always get it wrong, or feel like I'm getting it wrong at least.

This is anyway how I've been thinking it should be, and is a part of why I would like to have sensitive mid range driver.

It might be good for me to get this right here and now before I delve too far into the game of finding suitable drivers for a 1x5" mid to 2x8" woofers.
The laws of physics lead to a configuration like 2 x 8" woofers, 5" mid and 1" tweeter becoming what is required for clean high fidelity sound at standard listening levels in medium sized rooms in the home. There are variations if, for example, subs are in use but it is pretty much the datum/reference/starting point configuration for good high fidelity in the home. As a consequence it has become probably the most common configuration for top of the range commercial home high fidelity speakers from the larger manufacturers. If you look at these designs and measurements of these designs in magazines it will provide some guidance on what competent designs from experienced engineers looks like. You may find the odd design from enthusiastic DIY folk along the lines you suggest but I doubt you will find many, if any, from competent engineers for commercial use.

There are curiously few well sorted and documented DIY designs using this configuration with standard range drivers despite it almost certainly being a popular configuration for the relatively inexperienced. Not as popular as a small 2 way 6.5" midwoofer with 1" tweeter obviously but one of the most popular when stepping up a level in sound quality, size and price. I suggested this configuration when people were discussing possible options for an open source design exercise but although it picked up some support groups formed around a huge speaker and an expensive speaker which I doubt many will be interested in building for themselves. If you are committed to building the speakers then you may find others on the forum interested in becoming involved in details of the design. It would make it a different sort of project but it might be worth considering if you are interested and comfortable with it becoming less of your own design.
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Old 9th September 2019, 01:55 PM   #34
mordikai is online now mordikai  United States
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The AC- 130f1 is pretty nice. I have them in a pair of the Continuums and the mids are the best part. I’ve wondered why it’s not used as a dedicated kid more often.
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Old 9th September 2019, 08:19 PM   #35
HammerSandwich is offline HammerSandwich
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Yeah, the Faitals seems to be better than I remember.. Are there measurements available on them?
Dibirama measured the 5FE120 earlier this year.
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Old 9th September 2019, 08:50 PM   #36
MIJK is offline MIJK  Sweden
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I have nothing against a collaboration project if interest in it exists. The important part in this for me is the learning curve. I need to do this to be able to understand audio and speakers in a bigger context.

Are anyone able to answer on the question if it is possible to correct the baffle step in the crossover between woofer and mid by using more sensitive woofers against the mid?

If it is possible, and a good thing to do, the sensitivity of the mid should be lower than the range I've primarily have been looking at.

I do t really see why it couldn't be corrected that way.. Seems like a more reasonable option than padding down everything above the baffle step. But, I'm not an experienced builder, definately not.

If the baffle is around 30cm wide, there is room inside for 8" driver, the step appears to be at around 390hz, and that seems as good as any other crossover in the region.

It is far from easy to find information on how to do this, what I find when searching are the same two ways of doing it, either compensate or 0.5.

0.5 at that frequency makes no sense, and a 0,5 is more or less what I've asking, but another way of doing it, right?

Instead of adding a 0.5 just use higher sensitivity woofers and lower sensitivity mid, just skip the 0.5 thing and cross the woofers over to the mid at the frequency.

I'll start with this question, got some others I might need help getting right, that might be good to answer before any more serious choice on drivers should be made.
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Old 9th September 2019, 09:13 PM   #37
Moondog55 is offline Moondog55  Australia
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I dislike throwing away efficiency by padding down the midrange but somebody did point out to me that resistors are both cheap and innocuous. Personally I prefer to add an extra woofer or two and use a .5 but as noted the cost of a good inductor at the baffle step frequency might be an obstacle.
Amplifiers and electronic crossovers or DSP might be a better way to do things; especially now that plate amps are so much more refined and so much cheaper per watt than they have ever been
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Old 9th September 2019, 10:14 PM   #38
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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vs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerSandwich View Post
Dibirama measured the 5FE120 earlier this year.

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Old 9th September 2019, 10:17 PM   #39
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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..but somebody did point out to me that resistors are both cheap and innocuous.
-but they aren't "innocuous".

Really, if you need to do some padding, find your losses from sources other than commercial resistors.

:cough: :inductors:
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Old 9th September 2019, 10:26 PM   #40
MIJK is offline MIJK  Sweden
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Hmm, are you saying the way I thought of doing it, is a bad idea or not?

I don't really see the difference between using an extra 0.5 woofer against say for simplicity sake a a mid at 87db and woofer/s at the appropriate efficiency which at the usual(?) bafflestep at 6db would be at 93 dB and just cross over at the baffle step?

Using 2 x lower sensitivity woofers against one higher sensitivity woofer or 1 and a 0.5 shouldn't matter, or am I getting it wrong at some place?

Going active, in this project of mine kind of goes against the whole thing of learning the things I want to learn. But I do see the benefits in doing it. But still, not this time.
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