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-   -   Choosing the right 5" midrange (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/342339-choosing-5-midrange.html)

mbrennwa 17th September 2019 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog55 (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/342339-choosing-5-midrange-post5916781.html#post5916781)
You could ignore baffle step at this stage because you may find that the room totally dominates



Been there, done that. Does not work. Unfortunately, baffle step is a reality.

Moondog55 17th September 2019 03:03 AM

It exists but can be ignored and OP can work on the .5 woofer at a later date.

GM 17th September 2019 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbrennwa (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/342339-choosing-5-midrange-post5916872.html#post5916872)

Been there, done that. Does not work. Unfortunately, baffle step is a reality.

Has worked fine for me on numerous builds, but must be backed into a corner.

GM

pliedtka 17th September 2019 05:41 AM

Seriously why not go DSP....
 
Depending on the driver's used the complexity of the x-over might be quite high and it might turn out that going active will solve a lot of problems with level adjustment, time and phase alignment. Also drive choice is wider with active DSP system. I understand that amplification will add to the cost but if chosen wisely only woofers section will be expensive, for mids and tweeters something like LM3886 might be sufficient.
Please remember that finalizing really good passive crossover involves some changes in parts and coils aren't actually that cheap. I actually spent almost as much on x-over parts over the building process as on the drivers. I don't know how good is MiniDSP 4x10, but it's price is in very good quality parts passive crossover for 3way system.
Unless the design is specifically for 2ch amp, or HT receiver, then the spkrs choices are even more limited, because we want as simple crossover as possible. Just a thought.

mondogenerator 17th September 2019 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIJK (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/342339-choosing-5-midrange-post5915425.html#post5915425)
I can't put my finger on it, but it is something that makes me inclined to not going with Monacor.

Yeah...unsubstantiated prejudices. Or aesthetic discontent. Neither very good reasons to ignore a wealth of choices.
FWIW I'd rather pay less for a good driver with a stamped frame, than twice that for a driver with a shiny magnet (however it performs)

But I too, have seen Monacor and ignored them (their more budget drivers, look really low budget. Similarly to Visaton, who's best drivers are quite outstanding, and cheap drivers look like ceiling speakers)

However, those preconceived ideas of mine were wrong, and I have been very impressed with what sounds the MSH 115 belts out (at greater efficiency and similar flatness, to a comparable well respected Peerless) I certainly wouldn't pay 2 or 3 times the cost for a driver, no matter how well respected, if it can be equalled or bested for less cash.

Seen the same preconceptions/prejudices against chinese manufacture, without any reasonable justification (Tangband among others) - it's funny, we in the West still hold ok to the "Made in the (insert nation here)" belief that we make better, higher quality, products than the East.
Whilst that has been true, and is still true in some circumstances, it's really nothing more than a smear against Eastern products, which is becoming more of a belief than reality.

MIJK 21st September 2019 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondogenerator (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/342339-choosing-5-midrange-post5917024.html#post5917024)
Yeah...unsubstantiated prejudices. Or aesthetic discontent. Neither very good reasons to ignore a wealth of choices.
FWIW I'd rather pay less for a good driver with a stamped frame, than twice that for a driver with a shiny magnet (however it performs)

But I too, have seen Monacor and ignored them (their more budget drivers, look really low budget. Similarly to Visaton, who's best drivers are quite outstanding, and cheap drivers look like ceiling speakers)

However, those preconceived ideas of mine were wrong, and I have been very impressed with what sounds the MSH 115 belts out (at greater efficiency and similar flatness, to a comparable well respected Peerless) I certainly wouldn't pay 2 or 3 times the cost for a driver, no matter how well respected, if it can be equalled or bested for less cash.

Seen the same preconceptions/prejudices against chinese manufacture, without any reasonable justification (Tangband among others) - it's funny, we in the West still hold ok to the "Made in the (insert nation here)" belief that we make better, higher quality, products than the East.
Whilst that has been true, and is still true in some circumstances, it's really nothing more than a smear against Eastern products, which is becoming more of a belief than reality.

Yes, I think you might be right about it being unsubstantiated prejudice.. It's kind of seems like the better driver have the performance to match other speaker manufacturers, but maybe not the same level of aestetichs, stamped basket, wide frame around the driver and so on. The price of the better drivers are around same level of other good drivers from other brands.
I might try out some Monacor drivers further on in time.

MIJK 21st September 2019 11:02 AM

I've been doing home renovation at my apartment for the last couple of days and have had my head at other places than the reflex tube of a speaker.

I think I've come to the conclusion that I would like to use the NE149 as a mid.
I saw some measurements on one website, and it had a very flat FR and THD at SB or better performance. So, I think it might be a good choice. A bit out of the ordinary used path too.
Is it in the newer Statements speakers it is used in, right? Or it might be the little brother, as the Statement are MTM mid arrangement?
To that, I think I also would like to use one of the 8" version of the HDS driver but which one I don't know.

Which version do you guys think would be the better choice?

This seems to end up as a mostly Peerless speaker this too..

Would be nice to test other brands thou, but it looks like it would be possible to try other drivers out if I keep the midrange countersunk at 150mm with an appropriate baffle hole.
Some drivers might get a bit large hole thru the baffle, but as it looks it should work for testing.

This seems to be possible also for the woofer if I do the countersink at 226mm and the hole at 190mm. Then all peerless drivers, 22W and almost every other interesting 8" would fit.

For the midrange, not all interesting drivers could fit, but a large number of them would, and this is in my head a good solution. I like to keep options open as far as possible in the things I do. It seems like a good way out here too as I'm into deep water with regard to my knowledge. Going this route, also gives me the possibility to try out a 2 way at first maybe, using the NE149 as woofer.

If I did a 2 way with the NE149 but with exactly the same size baffle as the 3 way, just to learn a bit, I guess the baffle step effect/compensation would be easily transfered to the 3 way later on?

I did specify the frequency I would like to cross over to around 400 hz - 3,000 hz, but would it be better to change the target to lower at the lower end as I would be using a midwoofer for midrange? What are the best options for these crossover points?

Another question, would putting the midrange above the tweeter at the baffle, a MTWW arrangement instead of TMWW, induce the same lobing issues D'appolito has? I've seen both being used, and would be interesting to know the benefits of both placements.
Keep in mind I would like to have a good sound when standing up too. I really don't think this is a important point thou, everything should be built for best performance when sitting down but good performance standing would be a nice extra to have.


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