Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Powered speakers _ are they phase coherent by design ?
Powered speakers _ are they phase coherent by design ?
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th September 2019, 07:13 AM   #61
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
picowallspeaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
Hi maybe ... but i am buying a cheap microphone to try to measure some FR in the listening position in the actual listening room. As a start ...
I understand that when the FR is reasonably flat is a very good thing.
You have a very expensive head with two ears ( and one brain) and you're gonna buy a cheap microphone!?
__________________
It's like learning sex during the Victorian era: you get to the wedding night and there are many things to do that you never imagined.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 07:16 AM   #62
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Lol. What about a cheap calibrated one?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 07:34 AM   #63
ginetto61 is online now ginetto61  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
I have found that a speaker with high level, low order non-linear distortion but low linear distortion, is much better than a speaker with low non-linear distortion and higher linear distortions.
From your words it seems that a speaker with both linear and non-linear low distortion is not possible
My feeling is that commercial speakers have usually high level of distortion (i do not know if linear or not) especially in the low Hz range.
When i see people prasing the bass from a speaker with a 4" woofer i feel like there is something wrong in this statement.
Simply because most of the listeners have been never exposed to a speaker with real bass ... i have ... a big JBL and i have never heard more real drums Unbelievable but very telling about what bass is.

Quote:
This doesn't mean that I can't hear non-linear distortions, but I don't worry about some of them and I do worry about others. Mostly I like my amplifiers to keep their distortions simple and small. Speakers already produce simple non-linear distortions and I can hear them but I don't care as much, as long as other things are correct.
i think it depends a lot on which kind of music you listen to, the distance from the speakers, the room ... personal preferences.
Imho is important to isolate the very low Hz from the rest of the range.
My ideal speaker is a two box design ... with a bass box and a upper box dealing with mids and highs.
The very fundamental and still open to debate question is the cut frequency between bass and satellite ... i am very very undecided on this issue.
It is my recurrent nightmare ... really.
My target is a 3 ways speaker with conventional drivers. I like a lot ribbon drivers ... but the very good ones are not cheap at all ... Unfortunately
I see 3 ways full range speakers crossing low using cone mids (e.g. about 120 Hz) and other crossing high using dome mids (e.g. about 400-500 Hz).
I really do not know which way to go.
But what i know is that i really want the bass in its own cabinet mechanically decoupled by the satellite. That is a very sane design choice. At least imho of course
__________________
Thank you very much indeed
Kind regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 12th September 2019 at 07:41 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 07:50 AM   #64
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
From your words it seems that a speaker with both linear and non-linear low distortion is not possible
I'm not saying that. However there are issues that I used to believe were harmonic distortions that I now understand are something else. It continues to surprise me how while setting up a speaker I can cause things like a cone hitting the stops, and it is not as bad as I used to expect.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 08:07 AM   #65
ginetto61 is online now ginetto61  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by picowallspeaker View Post
You have a very expensive head with two ears ( and one brain) and you're gonna buy a cheap microphone!?
i see your point. I love instruments. I should have studied acoustics instead of chemistry that scares me deeply.
At an audio fair i met a technician who told me a story.
He had the opportunity to visit a small theater in Milan (do not remember the name) with a particularly good acoustic treatment.
He was shocked about how just a small portable radio was able to fill the room with sound.
I visited many home listening rooms of friends of mine ... someone with a very expensive system. No one was acoustically optimized. I know ... it is a non sense ... but that is.
__________________
Thank you very much indeed
Kind regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 12th September 2019 at 08:12 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 09:17 AM   #66
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
picowallspeaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
But what i know is that i really want the bass in its own cabinet mechanically decoupled by the satellite. That is a very sane design choice. At least imho of course
That's a good thing, I isolate the tweeter too; also the components of the crossover ( wires, too ).
__________________
It's like learning sex during the Victorian era: you get to the wedding night and there are many things to do that you never imagined.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 09:22 AM   #67
ginetto61 is online now ginetto61  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
I'm not saying that. However there are issues that I used to believe were harmonic distortions that I now understand are something else. It continues to surprise me how while setting up a speaker I can cause things like a cone hitting the stops, and it is not as bad as I used to expect
i do not think i understand well ... do you mean a cone bottoming out ? that is a disaster leading to damages.
Personally i have problems mainly with the lower audio range ... it is very challenging to get a very good bass. Like playback a pipe organ Toccata e fuga in all its glory. Very very difficult. But also very very nice. Exciting.
__________________
Thank you very much indeed
Kind regards,
gino
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2019, 11:08 AM   #68
phase_accurate is online now phase_accurate
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Toccata e fuga
If you mean BWV 565 - that one doesn't even go super low. But it sounds impressive when there is enough bass in terms of quantity.

Regards

Charles

Last edited by phase_accurate; 12th September 2019 at 11:12 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2019, 06:12 AM   #69
ginetto61 is online now ginetto61  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by phase_accurate View Post
If you mean BWV 565 - that one doesn't even go super low. But it sounds impressive when there is enough bass in terms of quantity.
Regards
Charles
Hi ! yes indeed ! this one here one of my favourite tracks for pipe organ

YouTube

are there tracks that go lower ?
Anyway, more in general i think that bass Hz are a bad beast ... they need their own "cage" like a tiger ... and above that cage the much less ferocious mids and highs.
To put a big and powerful shaking woofer in the same box with mid and high drivers is a real challenge for vibrations control ... not necessary
I like the bass box plus satellite arrangement a lot ...
imho the sound becomes immediately clearer
Thanks and kind regards,
gino
__________________
Thank you very much indeed
Kind regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 13th September 2019 at 06:14 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th September 2019, 08:38 AM   #70
phase_accurate is online now phase_accurate
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
"Lord, save Thy People" by Widor goes very low, depending which organ it was played on. It is organ , combined with brass and drums and depending on the capabilities of the reproduction chain - what is intended to sound radiant - is sometimes quickly turning into sounding harsh.

Prelude and fugue on B-A-C-H by Listz is sometimes also very bombastic - and threatening for some peole.

Regards

Charles
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Powered speakers _ are they phase coherent by design ?Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Phase Coherent Speaker Project? bluegti Multi-Way 11 10th January 2013 02:52 PM
Are single drivers really phase coherent? chuck55 Full Range 46 30th March 2010 06:03 AM
Phase coherent, low cost, 4th order XO rick57 Solid State 20 15th April 2003 03:55 PM
Which 4th order XOs are phase coherent? Are SWs of value? rick57 Multi-Way 0 14th April 2003 03:40 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki