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Slim tower / floor standing speakers - What to search for
Slim tower / floor standing speakers - What to search for
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Old 26th August 2019, 04:47 PM   #1
Jinxid is offline Jinxid  Denmark
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Default Slim tower / floor standing speakers - What to search for

Hello!

I'm brand new here and have been trying my best to search the forum and read threads to not start yet another help me pick speakers thread. But I feel like I'm a bit lost.

I see a lot of "go with a proven design" which i would love to. my problem is a lot of those threads with links are either old (discontinued drivers), or use vendors outside the EU, and I don't know enough to find alternatives - and that complicates things a bit.

I am aiming for slim-ish speakers (lets say around 20cm wide +- a bit) about 35cm depth and I think the threshhold for the height would be around 90-100cm. I'm really looking to avoid having to use a seperate sub, as space is kind of limited. - But that limited space should make it easier to have enough bass I hope?

They will be used for movies and music. I would like something that stands on the floor directly, as I see no reason to build a small speaker, then put it on a stand. The living room is not big - they will be placed next to the tv, and not very far from the couch, around 2-2,5m.

For my "office" I have some DALI300's that are going on 25 years, and I find them quite good. They bring a lot of oompf for their size.

I'm assuming driver technology and what not has moved on since then, and so keeping them in the office and building something new would be great fun for me, and hopefully sound as good or better than those

Good value is of course always welcome, especially as it is my first build.
I am willing to spend around 400 dollar for a set, for the internal bits.

I have a router, plunge-tracksaw and heaps of woodworking handtools available to me, and the urge to use them. Other half has modular synth stuff, so we've got the electronic tools covered also.

As mentioned in the beginning, I really would like is to make something that is already proven to be a good combination/size and so on, but I'm a bit lost how to search for what I'm looking for at the forum.

If anyone could point me at some builds that is doable in the EU, I would greatly appretiate it. Or even just suggestions for what searchwords would be helpfull.

Thanks!
Katrine
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Old 26th August 2019, 05:46 PM   #2
morbo is offline morbo  Canada
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two sites to peruse, both with solid designs on them & EU based:


DIY-Loudspeakers

Humble Homemade Hifi - Loudspeakers

Humble Homemade Hifi - Archive

www.audioexcite.com >> Loudspeakers

To the best of my knowledge these are the biggest EU diy speaker sites. I can't tell you which fit your budget as I'm not well versed in vendors or pricing there, but there will e options here. Also to help with your budget; bear in mind that some of these designs use what would be considered by many objectivist-minded folks as overkill crossover parts - in some cases you may be able to substitue iron-core inductors on woofers, or cheaper film caps to the boutique caps that are prescribed.

Personally I would build one the audioexcite designs, Prestigious Two Monitor DXT, or Classic Two M5, and build them as a floorstander by extending the cabinet to the floor and adjusting the box tuning if necessary.
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Old 26th August 2019, 07:39 PM   #3
wolf_teeth is offline wolf_teeth  United States
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Honestly, this sounds like my Nephila to a tee! About the right size, and the right price. The drivers should be available over there, as they are made in China anyway. HiVi F6 and Airborne/Hygaeia RT5002.

Let me know if this trips your trigger and if you have any more questions.
Later,
Wolf
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Old 26th August 2019, 10:16 PM   #4
Jinxid is offline Jinxid  Denmark
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Hi, thanks for the suggestions

I have been drooling a bit at the troelsgravesen site, but I feel like they're a bit over my budget. Might also be I don't understand how to read the prices. A ton of these expressions are completely new to me. The components in the crossover seem to be hidden and just lists as "included in kit" - so I'm not sure how I'd go about "downgrading" the bits.

The Prestigious Two Monitor DXT - funny enough looks a lot like my own grabbed out of the air idea i had with elliptical enclosure backside... So that one gets instant Ooo factor It's still a bit on the high end of my price bracket, but I think it's the best candidate so far, especially because the writeup seems very helpful. - How to go about tuning a box I wouldn't know, though - if made as floorstanding model.

Wolf, thank you for the suggestion but I am not a huge fan of the baffle bit sticking up over the enclosure so unfortunately that one gets fired on WAF factor (in this case, me! )

Thanks again for the help, I'll have to ponder it for a while.
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Old 26th August 2019, 10:37 PM   #5
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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A man's speakers should exceed his hearing ... or what's a credit card good for?

To support a great 8" woofer, this design is 2" wider and $80/speaker more expensive than your original goal.

Suggestion:
A modest size 3-way using 3-drivers. H43.8 W10.6 D16.7

Two high performing configurations:
1) 1" dome + 5" midrange + 8" woofer (250-300Hz crossover blends mid + bass) Target Design
2) 1" dome + 6.5" midBASS + 8" woofer (120-150Hz crossover separates mid-vocal range from bass)
-- larger midbass + larger crossover parts pushes price above $300/speaker

Truncated pyramid beveled baffle top significantly reduces edge diffraction distortion. Basic braced box, plus 2x-3x thick front baffle with beveled cuts, and chamfered rear baffle boards.

SB_Acoustics has an 8" woofer SB23NACS45- 4/8 with a ribbed aluminum cone which pushes the main cone breakup to 4kHz, and this significantly reduces distortion with a simple crossover circuit. Ported 2.5cuft box with 3" diameter x 10" long port tuned to 25Hz produces -F3 = 30Hz

Top drivers with medium grade crossover parts ~$300 per speaker.

$38 SB21SDC-4 = 1" dome tweeter
$67 SB15NAC30-8 = 5" midrange
$102 SB23NACS45-8 = 8" woofer
$80 passive crossover parts
=======
$287 = $207 drivers + $80 Xover

Bennic large value capacitors on midrange and woofer are used to significantly reduce crossover cost.
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Old 26th August 2019, 11:13 PM   #6
morbo is offline morbo  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinxid View Post
Hi, thanks for the suggestions

I have been drooling a bit at the troelsgravesen site, but I feel like they're a bit over my budget. Might also be I don't understand how to read the prices. A ton of these expressions are completely new to me. The components in the crossover seem to be hidden and just lists as "included in kit" - so I'm not sure how I'd go about "downgrading" the bits.

The Prestigious Two Monitor DXT - funny enough looks a lot like my own grabbed out of the air idea i had with elliptical enclosure backside... So that one gets instant Ooo factor It's still a bit on the high end of my price bracket, but I think it's the best candidate so far, especially because the writeup seems very helpful. - How to go about tuning a box I wouldn't know, though - if made as floorstanding model.

Wolf, thank you for the suggestion but I am not a huge fan of the baffle bit sticking up over the enclosure so unfortunately that one gets fired on WAF factor (in this case, me! )

Thanks again for the help, I'll have to ponder it for a while.
Just an addendum to my earlier post to say that I would also heartily recommend Wolf's speaker, if you search for it there were raving reviews at some of the DIY events on our side of the pond. I'll let Wolf correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the AMT used is closed-back, so you could box it in to match the woofer compartment. Could even use the extra space to house the crossovers or some sort of sand-filled compartments.

In terms of modifying the The Prestigious Two Monitor DXT to a floorstander - I am sure some people here would be happy to help you with that, it's one of the few changes that can be made to a design without major reworking. Not to mention, the author of that website posts here and indeed has posted a design thread for it:

Seas U16RCY/P + Seas 27TBCD/GB-DXT = Prestigious Two Monitor DXT

so may be willing to help directly.
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Old 28th August 2019, 01:33 PM   #7
Jinxid is offline Jinxid  Denmark
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Hello again

I'm changing my mind daily, who ever knew deciding what to diy could be so hard!

LineSource: I think unfortunately that the space we have here is too small - it literally is just 2-2.5m from tv to couch. And from the way you explain things, it sounds like I'd have to know what I am doing.

I really like the faceted fronts, though, and I'm curious if you can "ruin" a speaker not designed for it, by adding them?

morbo (and wolf_teeth): If the Nephila could be built with a closed top, that might be an option, although I've had no luck finding the Airborne RT-5002 anywhere european.

Now I'm back to pondering if maybe building a replacement for my old monitors would be a better overall plan, as I use those every day for several hours. - and if what i build turn out not so awesome, shove em into the living room on stands.

the prestigious monitor dxt, and studio 101 mkII from troelsgravesen best candidates for me i think - but really kind of higher price than i hoped.

The search and pondering continues. Thank you everyone for the inputs

Last edited by Jinxid; 28th August 2019 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 28th August 2019, 06:53 PM   #8
morbo is offline morbo  Canada
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You could certainly replace your office monitors, and if you do, Jeff Bagby's Tributes would be a similar design with more modern parts that are readily available in the EU. How big an upgrade it would be I can't say, it looks like the DALIs used 80s-vintage vifa drivers possibly? Which is certainly not a bad pedigree.

Some other designs you could consider that *should* be a bit less dear than the first suggestions:

Zaph|Audio
NOMEX-mkII
Speedster - undefinition
Amiga - undefinition

Assuming all parts are EU available... I am kind of guessing at prices here based on relative NA pricing, so you'll have to do a little legwork to see what fits or doesn't.
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Old 28th August 2019, 07:19 PM   #9
wolf_teeth is offline wolf_teeth  United States
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You can always extend the volume up behind the tweeter and just enclose the xover inside of it. Either way, for the height to be right, the woofer volume should be as it stands. My Nephila have been built this way by other people with the same idea.

Found some:
Hygeia Electron Co. RT-5002 Air Motion Transformer AMT Tweeter PAIR Photo #1960124 - UK Audio Mart

So- you are the wife? Welcome aboard! Not too many female participants in this hobby of ours.

Later,
Wolf
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Old 28th August 2019, 07:42 PM   #10
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinxid View Post
I'm really looking to avoid having to use a seperate sub, as space is kind of limited.
There are benefits to building a pair of 3-way speakers large enough to generate an optimal stereo soundstage down to -F3 ~30Hz.

1) Stereo bass down to 20Hz has been produced in low distortion, high SPL since 1982 on CDs, DVD-As, SACDs, and 5.1 movies.
2) With stereo woofers any out-of-phase bass information in a true stereo (acoustic) recording is reproduced properly at full level, adding immensely to the perceived width and depth of the room in which the recording was made.

Single Subwoofer
3) Most people with normal hearing can identify the difference between stereo vs. mono bass. Stereo bass has phase for location.
4) At frequencies below 80Hz most people with normal hearing cannot isolate the physical location of the woofer.
-----Expert listeners can isolate location of woofers down to 60Hz by focusing on impact harmonics, port noise, upper harmonic distortion.
5) Not being able to locate the subwoofer is a good cost simplification, but summing low bass into mono degrades true stereo recordings.
===

Troels Gravesen diy speaker website it the best source of quality consturction education. His "Illuminator Monitor" and floor standing Illuminator illustrate the top edge bevel cuts which reduce diffraction distortion.

An 8" woofer requires a 26cm wide cabinet. The beveled baffle cuts help slim the visual appearance. Can you compare a 26 vs 20cm cabinet width in your room? Sheets of paper taped to the rear wall.
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