I ordered two 2x10" sealed vertical cabinets that will serve as both subwoofers and stands for a pair of bookshelf speakers. I am buying a Minidsp SHD and will be using room correction and active crossover between the bookshelves and the subs. I will be playing around with different crossover points and curves to find what works best for me, but I think I will be somewhere in the 250-500hz range.
Are the Peerless by Tymphany 830668 are a good choice for this setup? Are there better options out there for the price, or will these do just fine? The enclosures are 2 cubic ft a piece, so 1 cubic ft per sub.
Are the Peerless by Tymphany 830668 are a good choice for this setup? Are there better options out there for the price, or will these do just fine? The enclosures are 2 cubic ft a piece, so 1 cubic ft per sub.
This driver, and its 12" cousin, need a relatively large volume box to work best as a closed-box woofer/subwoofer. This is due to a combination of high-ish Vas and Qts. But they should sound good if you do it right. In too small a box they will have too little bass extension to sound all that "full". A larger closed box, with a generous amount of stuffing, will be great.
I don't think that there is a better option at this price point, but the tradeoff is the larger enclosure.
I don't think that there is a better option at this price point, but the tradeoff is the larger enclosure.
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At this point I would rather spend more money on a subwoofer that will perform adequately in a 1 cubic foot sealed box. The next step up that I see would be the Dayton Audio Reference HO and HF. Obviously these will perform much better in a 1ft box, but will they perform as well in the 100-200hz range?
I plan on playing around with different bookshelf speakers. For now I have a pair of Dali Oberons and a pair of Wharfedale diamond 210s. I would like to try the KEF Q150s. Either way I will be crossing over pretty high because I want to get all of the punch from the subs/woofers and leave the bookshelves to handle the mid range with low excursion.
Yes I think I’ll end up crossing over somewhere in 250-500hz area because I really want to keep the woofer on the bookshelf nice and steady for a cleaner midrange response.
My question is whether or not the peerless will give me what I want if I put them in 1cuft sealed boxes. Are they capable of producing in the 20-30hz area in boxes like that? Keep in mind I will have four of them and will have them running through the Minidsp SHD, so I will basically have full control over them.
I’m no expert, but it sounds like Moondog was pointing out that the amount of watts needed to max out the excursion on the peerless 830668 in a 1ft sealed enclosure exceeds the watts that it is capable of handling. Is this right? In other words the amount of air pressure in a 1ft enclosure is just too much for this particular woofer? Again, I will have four of these subwoofers so even if that is true I don’t think that it be a problem for me because I don’t see myself ever needing all four of these subwoofers at full xmax at 20-30hz. I could be wrong about that, but it seems like that would be pretty loud.
Basically what I’m asking is if it would be beneficial to go with a beefier subwoofer with greater power handling like the Dayton Reference HF, or if the peerless 830668 will work fine for me with a little bass boost in the 20-30hz area. I don’t think I need these subs to be reaching Xmax at 20hz, but I do want a “big” sound overall that will give me deep bass and warm old school punch.
I have not picked out amps yet, so if I go with a beefier subwoofer I can choose an amp accordingly.
My question is whether or not the peerless will give me what I want if I put them in 1cuft sealed boxes. Are they capable of producing in the 20-30hz area in boxes like that? Keep in mind I will have four of them and will have them running through the Minidsp SHD, so I will basically have full control over them.
I’m no expert, but it sounds like Moondog was pointing out that the amount of watts needed to max out the excursion on the peerless 830668 in a 1ft sealed enclosure exceeds the watts that it is capable of handling. Is this right? In other words the amount of air pressure in a 1ft enclosure is just too much for this particular woofer? Again, I will have four of these subwoofers so even if that is true I don’t think that it be a problem for me because I don’t see myself ever needing all four of these subwoofers at full xmax at 20-30hz. I could be wrong about that, but it seems like that would be pretty loud.
Basically what I’m asking is if it would be beneficial to go with a beefier subwoofer with greater power handling like the Dayton Reference HF, or if the peerless 830668 will work fine for me with a little bass boost in the 20-30hz area. I don’t think I need these subs to be reaching Xmax at 20hz, but I do want a “big” sound overall that will give me deep bass and warm old school punch.
I have not picked out amps yet, so if I go with a beefier subwoofer I can choose an amp accordingly.
I think you want something that single woofers won't give you but if you have four of these small boxes then using a pair of them up to 300/350 [ I personally would cross much lower than that tho] and one of the pair set to cut-off at about 80 for low end boost should work. Once the top boxes move out of their pistonic range you have no problems with distortion or power handling up to the thermal limits, especially if the top boxes are sealed as they should be for best integration
The Peerless woofer is rated 70 watts RMS, I doubt if even I would be listening to that woofer played that loud for long. Personal opinion only but deep bass and punch are two very different things and need different drivers. Why no use a pair of each? The Peerless to about 120/200 possible 300Hz and the Dayton below 80 with wide [ low "Q"] boost at 30 Given subwoofer placement and room gain as part of the solution
The Peerless woofer is rated 70 watts RMS, I doubt if even I would be listening to that woofer played that loud for long. Personal opinion only but deep bass and punch are two very different things and need different drivers. Why no use a pair of each? The Peerless to about 120/200 possible 300Hz and the Dayton below 80 with wide [ low "Q"] boost at 30 Given subwoofer placement and room gain as part of the solution
Hmmm, I would definitely NOT suggest a vented alignment for the 830668. The Qts is rather high. MFG spec is Qts=0.55. That's too high for vented, and you would need a HUGE box.
The 830668 is an "old school" woofer that is best used in a large box, not in a small box with a boost at low frequencies.
One 10" sub that could works well for you in 1cuft is the Dayton RS265HO-4. This driver is a true modern subwoofer designed for small volume sealed enclosures. You will still need some boost of about 3-6dB around 25-30Hz to extend the response and in 1cuft it can handle 200W or so before reaching Xmax (that's per driver, for two of them you will need two 200W channels). Do not parallel the drivers, because they are already a low 4R load, each. I would get two 200W class plate amps and use one per driver.
Peerless XLS-10 should be considered too. It is designed for BR but with dsp it should work as sealed too, Much lower VAS and higher Le. Dayton RS265 might be even better.
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The thing to remember is that excursion is a peak, while the thermal power handling of these drivers is measured over a few hours.
I've dropped 500w+ into some Tang Band W6-1139s, but they were only receiving those power levels for a small fraction of a second - not long enough to cause much heating.
I honestly think you'll be fine with these drivers and a few hundred watts per driver.
Chris
-he is looking for something at about half that cost.
(..I was originally thinking about the Visaton 250XS when factoring-in use into the midrange.)Dayton Designer Series ALUMINUM:
Dayton Audio DSA270-8 10" Designer Series Aluminum Cone Woofer
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/295-532--dayton-audio-DSA270-8-specifications.pdf
-of course this driver ideally wants about 3 cubic feet, so the "high-pass" behavior on the low end is going to start higher in freq. and not have as much output as low in freq.. Unfortunately linear excursion is modest (for low freq. "boost").
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And yet people report back that it works well in Paul Carmodys Tarkus; but it uses a big box in that speaker.
Thanks for the input guys.
I am not completely opposed to spending more money. Charlielaub suggested the Dayton Reference. If I went with something other than the Peerless 830668 I was looking more so at the Dayton RSS265HF-8 because it is 8ohms. I don’t know if this will give me the same or similar results as the 4ohm HO version, but I went this route I would simply buy a more powerful pro amp like the QSC GX3 or GX5.
The beefier daytons will obviously perform better in the low end in these small sealed cabinets, but will they do well in the higher frequencies like 250-500?
I also have considered the Dayton Designer series which seems to sit in between the Peerless and the Dayton Reference HO and HF.
I am not completely opposed to spending more money. Charlielaub suggested the Dayton Reference. If I went with something other than the Peerless 830668 I was looking more so at the Dayton RSS265HF-8 because it is 8ohms. I don’t know if this will give me the same or similar results as the 4ohm HO version, but I went this route I would simply buy a more powerful pro amp like the QSC GX3 or GX5.
The beefier daytons will obviously perform better in the low end in these small sealed cabinets, but will they do well in the higher frequencies like 250-500?
I also have considered the Dayton Designer series which seems to sit in between the Peerless and the Dayton Reference HO and HF.
I think this really depends then on what you want from the result.
If you want to have very low freq. output near the average and are willing to eq. the design, then spend more money on the higher excursion driver with dual-wound VC.
If you want something that sounds more "dynamic" (upper-bass) but doesn't extend as low in freq. near the average, then go with the DSA 270-8 (..which is 8 ohms). Its MUCH more efficient, but only has about a 3rd of the linear excursion. Distortion will be lower above 60 Hz for it, but much higher below 50 Hz when compared to the RSS265HF-8.
If you want both qualities:
TIW 250 XS - 8 Ohm Visaton | Mouser
If you want to have very low freq. output near the average and are willing to eq. the design, then spend more money on the higher excursion driver with dual-wound VC.
If you want something that sounds more "dynamic" (upper-bass) but doesn't extend as low in freq. near the average, then go with the DSA 270-8 (..which is 8 ohms). Its MUCH more efficient, but only has about a 3rd of the linear excursion. Distortion will be lower above 60 Hz for it, but much higher below 50 Hz when compared to the RSS265HF-8.
If you want both qualities:
TIW 250 XS - 8 Ohm Visaton | Mouser
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I'm actually starting on a similar project, also using the SHD. Initially, I'll be using the NHT Xd monitor tops w/ passive xover on top of the woofers, but will eventually rebuild these drivers into a more dramatic cabined.
IMHO the Dayton RSS drivers are ideal for this. I'm still deciding between 2xRSS210-HF per side sealed vs 1x RSS265HO ported. Both of these scenarios do very very well in 2 cu ft (or less for the 265), although the 210's ideally require 4 amp channels vs 2 due to the 4 ohm load (I'd use 2 3e-audio 3255 boards in that case).
I've run the Xd tops with 1xRSS210HF with high quality signal/amplification, and IMHO the results are very satisfying.
IMHO the Dayton RSS drivers are ideal for this. I'm still deciding between 2xRSS210-HF per side sealed vs 1x RSS265HO ported. Both of these scenarios do very very well in 2 cu ft (or less for the 265), although the 210's ideally require 4 amp channels vs 2 due to the 4 ohm load (I'd use 2 3e-audio 3255 boards in that case).
I've run the Xd tops with 1xRSS210HF with high quality signal/amplification, and IMHO the results are very satisfying.
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