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Best way to balance speaker for a flat response
Best way to balance speaker for a flat response
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Old 11th August 2019, 08:39 AM   #21
sal87 is offline sal87  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post

Sort of. Can you measure the drivers in the box/baffle, both on axis and off axis, without any xover filters? You could feed these data into a speaker CAD software, draw the xover schematic and simulate the system result. Vituix CAD comes to mind.
Ok cool. I got the FRD and ZMA files from the manufacturer websites and fed them into xsim when I designed my crossover. I guess thatís the next best thing next to actually spending the money and testing physically.
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Old 11th August 2019, 01:24 PM   #22
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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Yes sal, obviously you should listen to the drivers 'raw' before purchasing, each type has its own coloration.

If you go with drivers a good philosophy is to have similar materials/manufacturer drivers. however there are good speakers with dissimilar materials, like plastics, metal, others have kevlar and berylium, but I would use similar materials at least for the sub/bass/mid, this ensures consistency. Remember, the sound is a whole, it is the total of all the parts

the simulator is a good way to know how complex the xo will be and the box volumes.

the simulator gives an idea, it is far from what will actually be.

I would not use music to tweak the xo, it is a common mistake, use music to tweak the response curve! then you design the xo accordingly.

pink noise? well it should measure without spikes and as close as possible to your desired response curve. I would use sweep tones with holm impulse or other very good software, trueRMA also helps finding peaks and resonances in real time.
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Old 11th August 2019, 01:44 PM   #23
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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If the flat response is the goal, the best (and possibly the only) way to correct the frequency response of the new unknown speaker in the room is, to compare it with a reference speaker which is proven to be flat. All the other method will end up the speaker with the response that is based on your subjective preference, which is not bad at all, though.
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Old 11th August 2019, 01:50 PM   #24
sal87 is offline sal87  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
Yes sal, obviously you should listen to the drivers 'raw' before purchasing, each type has its own coloration.

If you go with drivers a good philosophy is to have similar materials/manufacturer drivers. however there are good speakers with dissimilar materials, like plastics, metal, others have kevlar and berylium, but I would use similar materials at least for the sub/bass/mid, this ensures consistency. Remember, the sound is a whole, it is the total of all the parts

the simulator is a good way to know how complex the xo will be and the box volumes.

the simulator gives an idea, it is far from what will actually be.

I would not use music to tweak the xo, it is a common mistake, use music to tweak the response curve! then you design the xo accordingly.

pink noise? well it should measure without spikes and as close as possible to your desired response curve. I would use sweep tones with holm impulse or other very good software, trueRMA also helps finding peaks and resonances in real time.
Ok thanks man!

So with the pink noise should the chart look flat on the RTA? Iíve always been confused with how it should actually look on screen. Or look like a downward slope from left to right?
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Old 11th August 2019, 02:03 PM   #25
sal87 is offline sal87  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasnu View Post
If the flat response is the goal, the best (and possibly the only) way to correct the frequency response of the new unknown speaker in the room is, to compare it with a reference speaker which is proven to be flat. All the other method will end up the speaker with the response that is based on your subjective preference, which is not bad at all, though.
I agree, itís not bad but I would certainly prefer the best response from a technical point of view and then maybe colour it a little according to my bandís needs.

Itíll never be perfect, but then what is!
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Old 11th August 2019, 02:13 PM   #26
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sal87 View Post
I agree, itís not bad but I would certainly prefer the best response from a technical point of view and then maybe colour it a little according to my bandís needs.

Itíll never be perfect, but then what is!
I see. If the speaker has to be flat for that reason, you might have to buy or rent a proven pro monitor speaker and check your room (and cheap measurement mic) response before starting correcting your speakers. Without doing it, I'm pretty sure that you will just confused. I don't think you can build a reference speaker without the other reference speaker, unfortunately...
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:01 PM   #27
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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Hi sal,

the slope could be anything that you want. A flat curve is alright, for rock etc. For old classical recordings a little bass boost is welcome.

Some rooms have lot of reverberation of hi frequency so the sloped curve is a solution to reduce the high frequency energy due to reverberation.

In bigger rooms it is not necessary to have a downward curve!!!!

The bass boost at 100hz is a solution to a closed or radiator bass, it makes the small speakers sound more whole and not tin sounding.

If you use big woofers and big bass you can have a sloped bass, the perceived bass will be very clean and deep, the room boosts the bass...

The small room cancels deep bass and acts as a filter, to counter this effect you boost bass.

The big rooms boost bass and enable the long waves to fully expand, so a decreasing bass is preferred. A ruler flat bass in a big room can sound too much bass.

for example in a bedroom a boost at 100hz and nothing at 50 hz is perfect, you will not notice.

In a big room you can have a -3db point at 30 hz and no boost at 100 at all, it will sound nice.
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Last edited by gabdx; 11th August 2019 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:29 PM   #28
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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For the DIYer, there is only one way to balance a speaker to flat response that i know of...

Learn to measure, and find as reflection-free way as possible.
End of story....forget reference speakers..forget speaker driver matching etc...

Learn to measure, and find as reflection-free a way as possible...and then you can make almost anything sound like anything....
with capable processing, as it makes makes so many of these discussions seem plain silly.

That is, until you move into a reflection environment, and hear how everything changes,
and realize how much polar measurements matter...
And realize that all the eight billion recommended tweaks, important details, are pretty much pee in the wind...

What is flat? On axis ? Listening spot? Where? Power response? SPL?
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:38 PM   #29
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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Best way to balance speaker for a flat response
Here we go again. Somebody ardently posts, "There's SOMETHING amiss with my sound" and everybody runs off in all directions to fix "it".... instead of replying, "If you don't mind, how about telling us what seems to be your problem?"

BTW, sad to see nobody can think about anything besides speaker near-field FR.

B.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:44 PM   #30
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Here we go again. Somebody ardently posts, "Th

BTW, sad to see nobody can think about anything besides speaker near-field FR.

B.
Is your idea of reflection-free near field?

Mine isn't, at all.
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