I know about the usual baffle step calculations but I need to make some new and better bedroom speakers and because of space and clearance issues the box will be mounted with the long axis horizontal.
Very small clearance to the ceiling and they will be angled slightly downwards facing.
Vifa P13 and Vifa 27 45-06 tweeter from the last build but this time I am adding in a 155mm small woofer and it will be rolled off using a first order coil only and possibly a conjugate circuit for a strange second order. P-13 used full range as per the last build as these will not need to play very loud.
Layout not yet concluded but I may have just enough height to place the mid-bass and tweeter in the vertical
Aussies may be familiar with the little Jaycar CW-2135 poly woofer which will work in a smallish sealed box. If I angle the mount at about 12 degrees I can squeeze in a baffle about 280mm tall. Second question then is tweeter top or bottom?
Very small clearance to the ceiling and they will be angled slightly downwards facing.
Vifa P13 and Vifa 27 45-06 tweeter from the last build but this time I am adding in a 155mm small woofer and it will be rolled off using a first order coil only and possibly a conjugate circuit for a strange second order. P-13 used full range as per the last build as these will not need to play very loud.
Layout not yet concluded but I may have just enough height to place the mid-bass and tweeter in the vertical
Aussies may be familiar with the little Jaycar CW-2135 poly woofer which will work in a smallish sealed box. If I angle the mount at about 12 degrees I can squeeze in a baffle about 280mm tall. Second question then is tweeter top or bottom?
Yeah, if the cab isn't very deep, the fact that it's horizontal along a wall/ceiling [angled or not] you may very well have too much BSC, i.e. need a lower/lossy tuning or even sealed and why I recommend this even with big cabs same as in recording studios as you've taken most of the room out of the acoustic 'equation'.
GM
GM
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Sorry, missed this.
The woofer is to be loaded by the boundary.
So, tweeter will be along the bottom. The box angle is a little tricky in such a case, as you will need to achieve time alignment as well as axial response.
You can achieve some of your objectives by using a two-part baffle with the tweeter angled a bit more than the woofer.
Or the woofer on a straight-ish baffle, with the tweeter angled downward towards the listener. This should achieve your objectives better than angling the whole baffle.
The issue with tweeter on the bottom and a sloped baffle is that if you voice it on woofer axis, the tweeter may end up being greater than 15 degree off-axis.
Using different slopes (physical slopes, not crossover) on the woofer and tweeter allow you to effectively bring the woofer "closer" while being about 10 degrees off-axis for the tweeter, allowing you to voice it on tweeter axis as per usual.
Using different slopes (physical slopes, not crossover) on the woofer and tweeter allow you to effectively bring the woofer "closer" while being about 10 degrees off-axis for the tweeter, allowing you to voice it on tweeter axis as per usual.
The Boss wants me to go ahead and get these done but I still have no shed to work in. Garage builders are swamped but hopefully by October it will be done.
In the meantime I need to get myself some idea of what I am making and while moving stuff around I found some spare drivers in a small box I had forgotten about.
I have an unused pair of older Vifa P11WH-00-08s here plus a pair of the sweet little Vifa Neo tweeters, the original silk domes D26NC15-06. Wondering if anybody has a routering guide for the truncated face plate on that.
http://www.sea.vg/vifa/P11WH-00-08.pdf
http://www.wescomponents.com/datasheets/Speakers/Vifa/D26NC-15-06.pdf
Trying to decide on a crossover now as the top end isn't smooth enough to use with no filtering although using it in a 2 litre enclosure I may be able to be able to use the bottom end as-is but first modelling a simple cap in line at 100 seems to fit with a small closed box response
Just general pottering for the moment tho until I get someplace dry to cut wood, then some serious XO stuff.
In the meantime I need to get myself some idea of what I am making and while moving stuff around I found some spare drivers in a small box I had forgotten about.
I have an unused pair of older Vifa P11WH-00-08s here plus a pair of the sweet little Vifa Neo tweeters, the original silk domes D26NC15-06. Wondering if anybody has a routering guide for the truncated face plate on that.
http://www.sea.vg/vifa/P11WH-00-08.pdf
http://www.wescomponents.com/datasheets/Speakers/Vifa/D26NC-15-06.pdf
Trying to decide on a crossover now as the top end isn't smooth enough to use with no filtering although using it in a 2 litre enclosure I may be able to be able to use the bottom end as-is but first modelling a simple cap in line at 100 seems to fit with a small closed box response
Just general pottering for the moment tho until I get someplace dry to cut wood, then some serious XO stuff.
Here's a thing.
I really dislike throwing away efficiency be padding down a midrange. The little Vifa mids [ either the P-11 or the M-11] are 3dB or more than the little bass unit I am thinking of using so I have a choice, make a 3-Way or do another DIY Audio 2-War reference speaker. So I have a cobbled together set-up on my desk using some cheap Jaycar 4" drivers as a midrange because they don't need padding down. I'm testing the XO by playing "The Shadows Greatest Hits" and the grandkids come in and say that they sound like a real guitar. OK One point for me
I ask Miss 11YO which speaker she thinks is better The bigger Sansui 2-Way or my cobbled together bits. She points to the desk and the bits and tells me with certainty that my set-up is better than the factory box but "Not as loud but more clearer"
Kids are very astute these days and well able to interpret what they are thinking and explain things
I really dislike throwing away efficiency be padding down a midrange. The little Vifa mids [ either the P-11 or the M-11] are 3dB or more than the little bass unit I am thinking of using so I have a choice, make a 3-Way or do another DIY Audio 2-War reference speaker. So I have a cobbled together set-up on my desk using some cheap Jaycar 4" drivers as a midrange because they don't need padding down. I'm testing the XO by playing "The Shadows Greatest Hits" and the grandkids come in and say that they sound like a real guitar. OK One point for me
I ask Miss 11YO which speaker she thinks is better The bigger Sansui 2-Way or my cobbled together bits. She points to the desk and the bits and tells me with certainty that my set-up is better than the factory box but "Not as loud but more clearer"
Kids are very astute these days and well able to interpret what they are thinking and explain things
Attachments
OK So here are some pictures of the bulkhead where the new speakers are meant to go plus some pix of the full sized mock-up of the proposed new speakers. As mentioned baffle step won't be a problem or will it?
We won't be using the Vifa M-22 in the background as it needs a box too big for the available height
Turned into a Jaycar project not a Vifa one
Picture is a photo manipulation and almost true to size given my picture taking skills
SWMBO wants the boxes painted to match the wall colour and a matching grill if possible
We won't be using the Vifa M-22 in the background as it needs a box too big for the available height
Turned into a Jaycar project not a Vifa one
Picture is a photo manipulation and almost true to size given my picture taking skills
SWMBO wants the boxes painted to match the wall colour and a matching grill if possible
Attachments
Not sure I agree about just nowadays, my daughter [on the slippery slope to 52] among other 'teeny bopper' - up girls [10 yrs -up] during my active building 'career' were my favored 'judges' for mids-up and especially up high where they could better pick the point where vinyl noise was either masking the HF or 'was' the HF.
Were also great for telling me when too much foam density had been used. Us guys weren't just off on this stuff, we were often in a different country. Very frustrating/humbling.
GM
I [not so well] hear ya! 
I was afraid that was going to be the response since it's so wide. OK, try to get them at least as dense, heavy as welding curtains with plenty of weight sewed in the bottom to keep them as taut as practical, otherwise you got one doozy of a wide band absorber.
Yeah, If you look at human speech power curves, women's drop off below ~120 Hz Vs a man's ~60 Hz plus it's pitched up high to ~400 Hz with a faster roll-off then flattens out around to ~4 K and extending on up high while the man's crowns at ~300 Hz, rolling off the chart after crossing the women's at ~4 K.
Stands to reason then that we'd naturally hear lower better and vice versa.
GM
I was afraid that was going to be the response since it's so wide
. OK, try to get them at least as dense, heavy as welding curtains with plenty of weight sewed in the bottom to keep them as taut as practical, otherwise you got one doozy of a wide band absorber.Yeah, If you look at human speech power curves, women's drop off below ~120 Hz Vs a man's ~60 Hz plus it's pitched up high to ~400 Hz with a faster roll-off then flattens out around to ~4 K and extending on up high while the man's crowns at ~300 Hz, rolling off the chart after crossing the women's at ~4 K.
Stands to reason then that we'd naturally hear lower better and vice versa.
GM
Perhaps a good bass trap tarp demands a couple of subwoofers then? Joking aside there simply isn't room for them.
Good point on bottom weighting there so I guess I need to find some cheap lead or start finding some big industrial sized steel nuts
Or would the alternative be to have them as light as possible? All the clothing is already a good sound absorber.
My hearing loss is firearms related as back in the olden days or the army reserve they used to think a cotton wool ball in the ears was sufficient protection, 30+ years ago now
Good point on bottom weighting there so I guess I need to find some cheap lead or start finding some big industrial sized steel nuts
Or would the alternative be to have them as light as possible? All the clothing is already a good sound absorber.
My hearing loss is firearms related as back in the olden days or the army reserve they used to think a cotton wool ball in the ears was sufficient protection, 30+ years ago now
Dunno about nowadays, but way back when in my locale the tire shops would let me take all the used wheel weights I could carry and still have a small bucket full. I guess where you live they recycle all they can though. Still, wouldn't hurt to ask and maybe get them at scrap value at worst. Are fishing weights cheap if this doesn't pan out?
Never tried your situation, though seems like the clothes would really suck up any BW wider than the baffles, so maybe need some serious BSC.
Re really lightweight materials, had to add heavy draw drapes with additional bottom weights over the windows to both deal with all their eigenmodes/reflections plus the sheer drapes going nuts, so thinking it's not a good plan in your app either. SWMBO could tack some up just to be sure though.
Yeah, guns, grew up with them, but most times had 'good enough' earplugs except for one day when I got to shoot a 50 cal. sniper rifle. I don't recall what hurt more, the ear that was plugged and and wearing a headset or the shoulder, I was a rainbow of colors for a week from just a few firings. Judging by the pro linebacker size of its owner, relatively small guys like me never made the grade.
Most of my hearing damage though is from various types of racing, often with no protection and really loud concerts, where I never wore protection. All things considered, I'm really surprised I'm not near stone deaf like many of my older [and some younger] friends, relatives.
GM
Never tried your situation, though seems like the clothes would really suck up any BW wider than the baffles, so maybe need some serious BSC.
Re really lightweight materials, had to add heavy draw drapes with additional bottom weights over the windows to both deal with all their eigenmodes/reflections plus the sheer drapes going nuts, so thinking it's not a good plan in your app either. SWMBO could tack some up just to be sure though.
Yeah, guns, grew up with them, but most times had 'good enough' earplugs except for one day when I got to shoot a 50 cal. sniper rifle. I don't recall what hurt more, the ear that was plugged and and wearing a headset or the shoulder, I was a rainbow of colors for a week from just a few firings. Judging by the pro linebacker size of its owner, relatively small guys like me never made the grade.
Most of my hearing damage though is from various types of racing, often with no protection and really loud concerts, where I never wore protection. All things considered, I'm really surprised I'm not near stone deaf like many of my older [and some younger] friends, relatives.
GM
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