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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Seeking new build advice - please offer your .02
Seeking new build advice - please offer your .02
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Old 1st August 2019, 08:37 PM   #1
BeanAnimal is offline BeanAnimal  United States
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Default Seeking new build advice - please offer your .02

Greetings all!

I have taken my first real plunge into tube audio and am building two VTA M-125 monoblocks. So plenty of horsepower, even if it may not be needed.

I am torn between multiple designs proven designs and no idea which direction to go. I listen to everything from classical to collectable punk rock vinyl.

Listening room and space are somewhat at a premium, so size is a consideration. Cost is also a consideration. I don't mind spending some money, but also don't want to sink thousands into a build.

Do I go with something like the Ariel or other TLine? Maybe a Fostex or other horn design? Taditional MTM or 3 way? Other ideas?

Tube guys who listen to a wide range of music - I am looking for advice here. I don't mind adding a sub if that is a must, but would like to avoid it if possible.

Thanks!
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Old 1st August 2019, 10:16 PM   #2
pkitt is offline pkitt  United States
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What is your budget? How big is too big; do you want a floor-stander or a stand-mount cabinet? If you want a transmission-line design, you can do far better than the Ariel.
Paul

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Originally Posted by BeanAnimal View Post
Greetings all!

I have taken my first real plunge into tube audio and am building two VTA M-125 monoblocks. So plenty of horsepower, even if it may not be needed.

I am torn between multiple designs proven designs and no idea which direction to go. I listen to everything from classical to collectable punk rock vinyl.

Listening room and space are somewhat at a premium, so size is a consideration. Cost is also a consideration. I don't mind spending some money, but also don't want to sink thousands into a build.

Do I go with something like the Ariel or other TLine? Maybe a Fostex or other horn design? Taditional MTM or 3 way? Other ideas?

Tube guys who listen to a wide range of music - I am looking for advice here. I don't mind adding a sub if that is a must, but would like to avoid it if possible.

Thanks!
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Old 1st August 2019, 10:28 PM   #3
BeanAnimal is offline BeanAnimal  United States
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Paul thanks for the response...

My "listening room" is my home theater. 7' hard ceiling and walls with little acoustical treatment (may be one day?) Carpeted concrete floor and leather furniture. So far from ideal. The room is roughly 12'x25' with the listening/viewing position at about the midpoint.

Something the size of the Ariel is about as big as I would want to go. I.E. The room currently already has a pair of Mirage OM-6 speakers dedicated to the HT (they are not ideal either, but what I have).

Budget - drivers and crossover for the pair - I would not want to spend over 1K and if i could get away for half of that, I would be very pleased.

I really want to build something that will compliment the tube monoblocks - while I can play loud rock on any old speaker - I want something that will shine with other sources and still be able to play the rock.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 04:06 AM   #4
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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Do you want the wide polar sound of a dome tweeter, or do you want controlled directivity from a horn with a tweeter compression driver?

Cabinet size.... you want a narrow front baffle like the 8" Ariel, how deep can you accept?
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Old 2nd August 2019, 05:48 AM   #5
PeteMcK is offline PeteMcK
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The traditional 3-way just about covers all bases, for the budget end go for 'Tarkus', if you want to go a bit more up market try one of Troel's 3 Way classics, or one of his other 3 way designs if you want something a bit more skinny & modern....
I'd go for 10" woofer (or 2x 8"), 4" mid + tweeter
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Old 2nd August 2019, 01:17 PM   #6
BeanAnimal is offline BeanAnimal  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LineSource View Post
Do you want the wide polar sound of a dome tweeter, or do you want controlled directivity from a horn with a tweeter compression driver?

Cabinet size.... you want a narrow front baffle like the 8" Ariel, how deep can you accept?
Not quite sure that I can narrow (no pun) that down. I imagine that the dome would be more forgiving with regard to listening position and overall room constraints. That said, I have zero experience with compression drivers in this type of setting. From what I have gathered over the years, GOOD compression tweeters are rather spendy compared to comparable quality domes.

Cabinet wise I would like to keep the dimensions no wider than 12" and not much deeper. There are no hard constraints, but I just can't build monster corner horns or anything like that.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 01:19 PM   #7
BeanAnimal is offline BeanAnimal  United States
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@pkitt - so the Ariel drivers are not even available, taking that off the table. You indicate that I can do far better with regard to TL - Recommendations?

@Pete - thank you for the advice. Not sure I am looking for traditional 3-way alignments, but if that is the best bang and application for the criteria, then they are not off the table.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 01:33 PM   #8
pkitt is offline pkitt  United States
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I do not for a second want to criticize the Ariel's designer, Lynn Olson, as I respect immensely his knowledge, expertise and contributions to DIY speaker builders, but since he created the Ariel we've been blessed with the availability of modeling software that allow a much, much better possibility of designing really good-performing TLs of various forms. I've been using Martin King's software for well over a decade and it has allowed me to create and build a number of good TL speakers for my personal enjoyment and well as being able to design TLs for many others to build. I'd be happy to share with you some of my personal builds if you send me a private message that includes your email address.
Paul

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Originally Posted by BeanAnimal View Post
@pkitt - so the Ariel drivers are not even available, taking that off the table. You indicate that I can do far better with regard to TL - Recommendations?

@Pete - thank you for the advice. Not sure I am looking for traditional 3-way alignments, but if that is the best bang and application for the criteria, then they are not off the table.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 06:53 PM   #9
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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I don't think the TL in the Ariel was really much about significant low freq. extension.. more about getting a good midrange balance (and driver resistance) for the design.
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Old 2nd August 2019, 06:59 PM   #10
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanAnimal View Post

Do I go with something like the Ariel or other TLine? Maybe a Fostex or other horn design? Taditional MTM or 3 way? Other ideas?

Tube guys who listen to a wide range of music - I am looking for advice here. I don't mind adding a sub if that is a must, but would like to avoid it if possible.

Thanks!

..it's going to be tough to get much better than the speakers you already have in a fairly "full-range" design with something as small as the Ariel.

If it's a matter of "foot-print" then you might consider a tall line-array with a side(panel)-loaded sub. That should net you something different and potentially better than your Mirage's.
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