Hello
With all the above in consideration, you should take a look to Visaton - La Belle
As long as you have the power you will have no problem getting those wofers to work, and beeing a closed design it can be put near walls, saving space. Just my 0,02.
Good luck to your search.
Carlos
Do you ha e experience with this design? I have read decent things about thenB 200, but the tweeter does not get good reviews.
This amp has damping factor and power comparable to a solid state amp. The old rules of thumb that exploit the impedance interaction are not going to apply here.
UPDATES: For now the idea of using what I build for LCR is off the table. These will be solely built for music.
Therefore, bass extension is going to be important. I can add a sub, but would rather not if possible.
I like the econowave idea, but SEOS 12 appears to be discontinued, as does the DNA-360. Leaving me with non standard design and DIY design that I would like to avoid.
I saw a few econowave style floor standers using EA TD12M - cool but spendy, worth the cost? Also the SEOS discontinued problem.
The Troels SBA 16 MTM looks interesting, but kinda spendy. Is it worth it? Would adding small 12” powered subs into the base of these in tower form be of great benefit?
LA Bella was also expensive and I did not find many reviews. If what I did find, they were somewhat mixed.
Paul - your designs.. how do they fit into this mix, given my criteria?
Therefore, bass extension is going to be important. I can add a sub, but would rather not if possible.
I like the econowave idea, but SEOS 12 appears to be discontinued, as does the DNA-360. Leaving me with non standard design and DIY design that I would like to avoid.
I saw a few econowave style floor standers using EA TD12M - cool but spendy, worth the cost? Also the SEOS discontinued problem.
The Troels SBA 16 MTM looks interesting, but kinda spendy. Is it worth it? Would adding small 12” powered subs into the base of these in tower form be of great benefit?
LA Bella was also expensive and I did not find many reviews. If what I did find, they were somewhat mixed.
Paul - your designs.. how do they fit into this mix, given my criteria?
I looked at both Troels and Martin King’s SBA 16. The thought was to integrate a sub enclosure in an isolated compartment in a floor standing adaption, keeping the same baffle width and crossover as the original design, and running the sub from a different amp. That is, if the sub is even needed.
TBH - I think it best to look at robust 2-way design and add a sub if needed. I would like to steer clear of complex 3 way along,Mets if possible. Not only that but the SBA 10 and 741 are (to me) rather ugly and WAF would be a -100
You could start by building the Kairos and then if needed add the sub section or build as others have with an integrated sub, just need to make sure baffles are the same side and volumes and ports are also.
https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kairos-Write-up.pdf
Sub add on - The Kairos and Continuum Three-Way.pdf - Box
Kits are available.
Or if your woodwork is up to it and want to spend all of your budget then have a look at the Premios. Premios | Parts Express Project Gallery
https://meniscusaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kairos-Write-up.pdf
Sub add on - The Kairos and Continuum Three-Way.pdf - Box
Kits are available.
Or if your woodwork is up to it and want to spend all of your budget then have a look at the Premios. Premios | Parts Express Project Gallery
non sequitur here - but I just can’t bring myself to click on any avsforum link anymore and can’t understand why anyone would patronize that site. Well placed advertisements and sponsored ads are one thing, well done native ads are even okay in moderate doses....
They ruined that site with an advertisement puke storm. You have to close a popup on every page load, inline images are covered with partial ads as you scroll. There are ads between almost every reply and every few posts there is an ad that looks like a post. There are ads in the header and ads in the sidebar. FWIW, my day job is in that (affiliate marketing, ad network) space...
They ruined that site with an advertisement puke storm. You have to close a popup on every page load, inline images are covered with partial ads as you scroll. There are ads between almost every reply and every few posts there is an ad that looks like a post. There are ads in the header and ads in the sidebar. FWIW, my day job is in that (affiliate marketing, ad network) space...
-with a more traditional design, definitely the Elsinore(s).
It's got good extension in-room, and a fantastic crossover (phase response) + a very easy impedance. The crossover is easy (electrically speaking w/ components and wiring). The driver's aren't expensive, and the waveguide for the tweeter (though not inexpensive) is of very high quality.
The "Elsinore Project" Thread
Elsinore Speakers DIY
All with a reasonably narrow baffle ..and the baffles can be done to look good:
Attachments
Extremely interesting design... and I am taking a very serious look, though to be brutally honest, In the hour I have spent reading the thread and site, I find It to exhausting. Joe may be the most brilliant, benevolent and humble guy on earth (honestly), and I may have missed something where multiple people asked insanely stupid question or made folkish comments or demands... but it feels like every single post, question or comment is responded to with a 5 paragraph diatribe where he explains how complex the FREE design is and that even looking at it inquisitively will cause him to do iterative and exhausting rework using dozens of complex tools and models, so as not to tarnish his reputation... Worse, it appears contagious, as those posts are followed by snarky posts from admirers dog pilling on. Maybe I was just unlucky enough to skip through and hit the 15 worst pages.
I don’t mean any disrespect at all... I am just not sure I have the patience to wade through all of it..
So i gotta ask... is it all that? That much Better than the other designs we have touched on here? Personal experience anyone?
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I wouldn't read into the thread.. just skim it for subjective responses of those who have built it.
As to the design itself, just look at the measured result on his webpage. (..and the schematic for the crossover.)
There are other designs that feature some similarities.
Note Lipinski Sound's step response:
Lipinski Sound L-707 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
-though I'm not fond of either that tweeter or MTM's in general.
The Elsinore is a much better design than the 707, with a much better tweeter (and likely better midbass driver's as well).
As to the design itself, just look at the measured result on his webpage. (..and the schematic for the crossover.)
There are other designs that feature some similarities.
Note Lipinski Sound's step response:
Lipinski Sound L-707 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
-though I'm not fond of either that tweeter or MTM's in general.
The Elsinore is a much better design than the 707, with a much better tweeter (and likely better midbass driver's as well).
Have you built or listened to the Elsinore.
Also - I broke down read the whole thread... Jeff is a character and it is obvious that he puts a lot into everything he does. My comments were a bit off base...
Hi Bean,
With 400 watts per channel of available power ( 4 x kt150) , there is no reason to sacrifice the sound with separate subs.
I have similar amplifier designs and I had 500watt class AB subs, now I am building another 3 way all scan speak.
I tried other designs with multiple drivers etc, the best is to kiss
So maybe A26 something like that if you don't want something too big.
With 400 watts per channel of available power ( 4 x kt150) , there is no reason to sacrifice the sound with separate subs.
I have similar amplifier designs and I had 500watt class AB subs, now I am building another 3 way all scan speak.
I tried other designs with multiple drivers etc, the best is to kiss
So maybe A26 something like that if you don't want something too big.
Neither, but I've done something very similar (..and likely will again).
I have heard the driver's (at least with the older SB drivers) in other designs: very good stuff, though the Peerless tweeter sounds a bit over-damped to me (..though no where near as bad as the double ring tweeter in the Lipinski loudspeaker).
Having more than a good idea of the result, if I wasn't into DIY-design and I was looking for a floor-standing monopole, I build it for myself. ..I don't think I can say that for any other (somewhat similar) design.
I LOVE radial designs (like the LXmini and Pluto's midbass). By far the best soundstage, well..at least in the midrange. I never did a point-source radial higher in freq.. so I couldn't say that it's "the best", but I always wanted to. ..and I have a design in mind to partially accommodate that (but it's a few years away).
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