Yes, a bit, but there was an effect on the phase too, which simplified the driver positioning on the baffle.
I took the advice, and changed the design, and I agree also that BSC isn't always necessarily the right thing. At least I have already got a pair of speakers I built in that room, so I have an idea of what works there. It's partly the reason I was worried about my initial design.
It's great to have knowledge here that can help so much. Hopefully I can convey what I have learnt to others to give back a bit.
2.5 way filter= 1 LP (1st order) for 1 midwoofer, 1 LP (2nd order) for the other, and 1 HP for the tw.
This was deployed by manufacturers in the past and should be taken into consideration for centre in diy as well, imo.
edit: I apologize, it's effectively a 2nd order in both midwoofers.
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I thought perhaps another option would be 5 speakers using each a Visaton BG13P in 8.2 L with a port tuned to 100 Hz. I could put a 10 ohm and 6.8 uF across the driver to flatten the impedance. I think this would be quite a nice avenue to try. The only difference with the center is a different baffle placement so that it can lie on its side.
I've thought about this, and I'll decide on 2-way vs full-range closer to when I buy. The full-range based system won't give as good off-axis performance, and obviously will need bigger boxes.
I like the previous 2-way design, but there were a few things I thought I could change, one being the box size. So I've opted for a 4" design, and I think it will work. I can use one as a center channel too, since it will only be 22cm high.
One DC28FT-8 and one DS115-8. I like the designer series from DA because it looks a lot better than the classic series, and I won't need to route recesses into the baffle. I can just mount the mid and tweeter directly on the baffle. The enclosure will be about 1.7L, sealed. 22.2 x 13.2 x 12.2 cm (H x W x D).
I like the previous 2-way design, but there were a few things I thought I could change, one being the box size. So I've opted for a 4" design, and I think it will work. I can use one as a center channel too, since it will only be 22cm high.
One DC28FT-8 and one DS115-8. I like the designer series from DA because it looks a lot better than the classic series, and I won't need to route recesses into the baffle. I can just mount the mid and tweeter directly on the baffle. The enclosure will be about 1.7L, sealed. 22.2 x 13.2 x 12.2 cm (H x W x D).
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I like my previous design. I think it will do well if I build it, but I did also entertain the thought of a coaxial speaker. I looked at the DA 4" one, but the reviews have put me off - inconsistent build quality and measurements. But I like the idea, and there are some speaker manufacturers who do it well. I have decided that if I go this route (which will be nice and easy), I have two options, leaning firmly towards the first:
1. JL Audio C1-525x
2. Hertz ECX 130.5
I really like the JL Audio cone material and tweeter material, and the fact that they have a 2nd order crossover built in. The JL Audio also looks better. The Hertz are known to be a good brand, and I like that they post frequency response curves and T/S parameters. Either would go into about a 10 L vented enclosure.
Has anyone heard these drivers?
1. JL Audio C1-525x
2. Hertz ECX 130.5
I really like the JL Audio cone material and tweeter material, and the fact that they have a 2nd order crossover built in. The JL Audio also looks better. The Hertz are known to be a good brand, and I like that they post frequency response curves and T/S parameters. Either would go into about a 10 L vented enclosure.
Has anyone heard these drivers?
Ok, so the Hertz were selling for quite cheap at an online shop here, so I went for them. Sadly they didn't have stock, so I replaced them with something a little better (I think). Focal RSE-165.
I went with these 6.5"ers because VAS is only 9 L. Resonance is somewhere around 70 Hz, so the speakers can still be small while giving me enough response. Qms is high at around 8, and the drivers are stiff. Qts of 0.9 allows me to get Q of near 1 in only 26 L sealed.
https://www.focal.com/sites/www.focal.fr/files/shared/catalog/document/rse_165_technical_sheet.pdf
They are really really nice looking drivers! And the manufacturing quality is quite unbelievable; I mean, at this price-point, I've never seen quality near this.
I put them in a test cabinet, and they do sound good. The bass is very lean, but I remind myself that I didn't buy these for bass - the sub will do that job! The tweeters are too strong, so I'm putting a 3.3 ohm in series with them. I also experimented with driver spacing, and I found that 15 cm center-to-center got the drivers very well integrated. The tweeter also needed to be connected + to +, so at least I now know that.
I'm going for small floor-standers in the front and bookshelf's for the rear. 26 L for the front, and 7.3 L for the rear. Baffle width of only 18 cm total. I think I'm going to just need a lot more power than I originally planned. I'll try to push 65 W per channel - these drivers are hungry for power.
I went with these 6.5"ers because VAS is only 9 L. Resonance is somewhere around 70 Hz, so the speakers can still be small while giving me enough response. Qms is high at around 8, and the drivers are stiff. Qts of 0.9 allows me to get Q of near 1 in only 26 L sealed.
https://www.focal.com/sites/www.focal.fr/files/shared/catalog/document/rse_165_technical_sheet.pdf
They are really really nice looking drivers! And the manufacturing quality is quite unbelievable; I mean, at this price-point, I've never seen quality near this.
I put them in a test cabinet, and they do sound good. The bass is very lean, but I remind myself that I didn't buy these for bass - the sub will do that job! The tweeters are too strong, so I'm putting a 3.3 ohm in series with them. I also experimented with driver spacing, and I found that 15 cm center-to-center got the drivers very well integrated. The tweeter also needed to be connected + to +, so at least I now know that.
I'm going for small floor-standers in the front and bookshelf's for the rear. 26 L for the front, and 7.3 L for the rear. Baffle width of only 18 cm total. I think I'm going to just need a lot more power than I originally planned. I'll try to push 65 W per channel - these drivers are hungry for power.
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Fronts built, not tested
Ok, so I think I went with about 17L boxes in the end. Finally, I've built just the front pair. I need to stuff the boxes, but I'll do that later in the year. They'll be fine without stuffing for now. Everything went together nicely and neatly. The boxes are 18mm plywood, finished with clear polyurethane. I nailed the box together knowing that I'll see the nails in the finished product, but it's a trade off for the time and effort it takes to clamp the boxes together - something I don't have time for. I will hook them up for testing later today. For now, I'll have to endure work for the next few hours (ok, I enjoy my work, it's just that I have new, untested speakers at home).
I must just say that Rust-Oleum Ultimate Polyurethane is one of my favourite substances in existence.
Ok, that said, the speakers look quite nice actually!
Ok, so I think I went with about 17L boxes in the end. Finally, I've built just the front pair. I need to stuff the boxes, but I'll do that later in the year. They'll be fine without stuffing for now. Everything went together nicely and neatly. The boxes are 18mm plywood, finished with clear polyurethane. I nailed the box together knowing that I'll see the nails in the finished product, but it's a trade off for the time and effort it takes to clamp the boxes together - something I don't have time for. I will hook them up for testing later today. For now, I'll have to endure work for the next few hours (ok, I enjoy my work, it's just that I have new, untested speakers at home).
I must just say that Rust-Oleum Ultimate Polyurethane is one of my favourite substances in existence.
Ok, that said, the speakers look quite nice actually!
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I plugged the speakers into my main amp, and they sound superb. I actually don't need a damping resistor on the tweeter. The sound quality is really good, and they are perfect for what I want - primary movies, secondary music. Vocals are really clear, but not overly pronounced.
Then I plugged in my old 8" woofer, and after a weekend of balancing, you can't even notice it. It sounds like the speakers are doing that 35 Hz.
I connected my 4 channel car amplifier with a DC power supply thinking that will be a good solution for the 4 amplifiers I need (the center channel will be internally powered), and boy, what a messy noise! I believe there is a lot of electrical work to be done if a car amp is to be used. So I reached into the top of my storage cupboard and pulled out my old 4 channel amplifier. What an interesting amplifier I designed there! I must actually put some pictures up of it. That was better. Still a tiny bit noisy, but I think all I need is an earth loop breaker, and to then connect the input circuit to the star ground properly.
Being a 36 W per channel amplifier for 8 ohms (probably about 65 W for 4 ohms), it's a very well behaved amplifier compared to my 350 W (4 ohms) main amplifier. No transformer buzzing, and no transformer shiver on turn-on. It's got a messy turn-off, but nothing serious. (Yes, I've got all the things to calm the main amp down, I just need to put them in).
In the process of connecting things, I connected a 3.5mm to RCA cable to the surround output of my Sound Blaster X-Fi Audigy Fatal1ty (RCA's connected to nothing), and BANG a loud noise out the front channel. The card is blown. It must have been static or a ground potential or something, but good riddance anyway. Sure, it's going to cost me a bit to replace, but honestly, that card for all its good things was always an issue. I've contemplated getting a new card for some time now anyway. At least I don't need to buy an amplifier or power supply like I had planned, so the new sound card will be a lot cheaper than all that.
Ok, so the speakers - I listened to (before the sound card blew up) some quality Tracy Chapman, some good old hard-hitting Pendulum, and everything between, and they are super impressive (as my opening line alludes to). Even without a woofer, they're really satisfying to listen to. My initial problem of my original speakers in that big room not filling it isn't an issue now with these (I wrote about this in my speaker build thread somewhere here). So bang-for-buck, I'm really impressed. I listened to some movie scenes from the Matrix (where Trinity has her opening scene fight), and I listened to some scenes from the Star Wars prequels; namely the seismic charges and the opening scene to ROTS.
I'll build the rear speakers during the next week, and then I look forward to watching Star Wars 9 in glorious 5.1 when it's out on Blu-ray/DVD.
Then I plugged in my old 8" woofer, and after a weekend of balancing, you can't even notice it. It sounds like the speakers are doing that 35 Hz.
I connected my 4 channel car amplifier with a DC power supply thinking that will be a good solution for the 4 amplifiers I need (the center channel will be internally powered), and boy, what a messy noise! I believe there is a lot of electrical work to be done if a car amp is to be used. So I reached into the top of my storage cupboard and pulled out my old 4 channel amplifier. What an interesting amplifier I designed there! I must actually put some pictures up of it. That was better. Still a tiny bit noisy, but I think all I need is an earth loop breaker, and to then connect the input circuit to the star ground properly.
Being a 36 W per channel amplifier for 8 ohms (probably about 65 W for 4 ohms), it's a very well behaved amplifier compared to my 350 W (4 ohms) main amplifier. No transformer buzzing, and no transformer shiver on turn-on. It's got a messy turn-off, but nothing serious. (Yes, I've got all the things to calm the main amp down, I just need to put them in).
In the process of connecting things, I connected a 3.5mm to RCA cable to the surround output of my Sound Blaster X-Fi Audigy Fatal1ty (RCA's connected to nothing), and BANG a loud noise out the front channel. The card is blown. It must have been static or a ground potential or something, but good riddance anyway. Sure, it's going to cost me a bit to replace, but honestly, that card for all its good things was always an issue. I've contemplated getting a new card for some time now anyway. At least I don't need to buy an amplifier or power supply like I had planned, so the new sound card will be a lot cheaper than all that.
Ok, so the speakers - I listened to (before the sound card blew up) some quality Tracy Chapman, some good old hard-hitting Pendulum, and everything between, and they are super impressive (as my opening line alludes to). Even without a woofer, they're really satisfying to listen to. My initial problem of my original speakers in that big room not filling it isn't an issue now with these (I wrote about this in my speaker build thread somewhere here). So bang-for-buck, I'm really impressed. I listened to some movie scenes from the Matrix (where Trinity has her opening scene fight), and I listened to some scenes from the Star Wars prequels; namely the seismic charges and the opening scene to ROTS.
I'll build the rear speakers during the next week, and then I look forward to watching Star Wars 9 in glorious 5.1 when it's out on Blu-ray/DVD.
I built the surround speakers and center speaker. The surround speakers were made small to fit in the corner between the ceiling and wall, tucked away out of sight as much as possible. I used 16mm chipboard covered in nice black carpet. The idea was to make the speakers as inconspicuous as possible. They came out looking very nice, so I guess that worked out well.
The center speaker was a simple one built from a simple coaxial 4" speaker, also in plywood to match the front pair. I'll be honest that the sound quality is definitely good enough, and I don't see a need to upgrade it in the future. It's also more than loud enough to keep up.
I have a few finishing touches to still do, but I rushed the system together so that I can create space in my house, pack away building materials and tools, and have a complete system for when I have guests soon. The finishing touches include stuffing the boxes, painting the center speaker with polyurethane, and sorting out the amplifier for the center channel (at the moment it's got too much buzz, and I want a built-in amplifier). Otherwise it looks nice and sounds excellent.
I watched some 5.1 content, and everything works better than expected. The one stand-out was that I couldn't believe how loud it is. Even the old woofer was surprising me how loud it would go.
In the attachments the surround speakers are on stands. This is temporary until I mount them on the walls.
The center speaker was a simple one built from a simple coaxial 4" speaker, also in plywood to match the front pair. I'll be honest that the sound quality is definitely good enough, and I don't see a need to upgrade it in the future. It's also more than loud enough to keep up.
I have a few finishing touches to still do, but I rushed the system together so that I can create space in my house, pack away building materials and tools, and have a complete system for when I have guests soon. The finishing touches include stuffing the boxes, painting the center speaker with polyurethane, and sorting out the amplifier for the center channel (at the moment it's got too much buzz, and I want a built-in amplifier). Otherwise it looks nice and sounds excellent.
I watched some 5.1 content, and everything works better than expected. The one stand-out was that I couldn't believe how loud it is. Even the old woofer was surprising me how loud it would go.
In the attachments the surround speakers are on stands. This is temporary until I mount them on the walls.
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I've been using this system for a while now, and it's absolutely fantastic. To begin, the amplifier is a masterpiece. A few weeks ago I did some surgery to remove the preamp transformer which wasn't being used anymore, and I did some things to remove earth loop hum. I spent a lot of time designing the amplifier, and especially a lot on the PCB layout. The amplifier has some interesting quirks:
The speakers are surprising me more and more. They're so balanced. I did some EQ and boosted the sub-70Hz a little. I couldn't get better results than near-flat EQ in the mids and highs. Music is a joy to listen to, and I've been listening to live jazz streaming on YouTube without end, and it's a pleasure. I've watched a few great movies in 5.1 now, and it's really fantastic for such a simple setup. And the rear speakers are mounted way too high. The speakers also look great.
Here's the surprising bit: these are car speakers. Good ones, but still, car speakers with a simple crossover. I've turned off the woofer for music. The speakers are enough. And the requirement to fill my large living room - they do it with ease.
- It's the first amp I tried SanKen transistors with. the drivers were fine, but all the power transistors turned out fake. I used TIP41/2 instead.
- I tried using two diodes in the bias, and it was too much. One diode set the bias perfectly. The second is still there, bridged with a short copper wire. And it's not the only bridge...
The speakers are surprising me more and more. They're so balanced. I did some EQ and boosted the sub-70Hz a little. I couldn't get better results than near-flat EQ in the mids and highs. Music is a joy to listen to, and I've been listening to live jazz streaming on YouTube without end, and it's a pleasure. I've watched a few great movies in 5.1 now, and it's really fantastic for such a simple setup. And the rear speakers are mounted way too high. The speakers also look great.
Here's the surprising bit: these are car speakers. Good ones, but still, car speakers with a simple crossover. I've turned off the woofer for music. The speakers are enough. And the requirement to fill my large living room - they do it with ease.
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