Hello everyone,
hope a can get a good advice. After reading some beginners articles here i scrapped the idea of starting from scratch completely. Lucky me, the only thing i bought sofar is a minidsp mic for measuring.
Now, what is my goal?
Well, i can put that quite simply; my wish is to build a standflooring speaker that sound much like the speakers i heard at a store lately; the Dynaudio Emit 30's
For my ears they sound very, very well. It is only the price of them that hold be back, else i would have them already.
So, time for plan two. Build something with that kind of soundstage myself.
Hopefully cheaper. Anyone who heard those Dynaudio Emit's, will know what i am looking for.
I think best words to descripe them is; very good detail, transparant, sparkling highs and tight but also quite deep bass. But the mids are just as fine to listen too. Very open. I would say natural.
What i am not looking for; anything that sounds like the KEF150/350 fullrange driven speaker. Heard them and they failed, they do sound oke, but if you compare them to the Emit 20's, you soon notice the mids are muffled, pianonotes seem "sticky", where i can count them on the Emit's. High is too soft too, for me. A couple of B&W i heard too, about sae priceclass did not cut it either; just cannot find myself into the "brittisch" sound. Too gentle, too boring.
Main reason i like the brighter speakers better, is my hearing; i lost some Db in the highs. So what sound way too bright for most of us, can sound exactly right for me. To be honest, many years ago i owned the Canton Quinto 540's, and they were more or less the same; good lows, nice mids, and sparkling highs. And then my ears were not wasted, so....
Anyway, hope there is a diy package that will surpise me and you can point me in the right direction
ps: i just love transmissionlines. Have played with it, on my poor Canton Quinto 540's, with a heavily flared port and that did sound amazing. By sure not correct, haha but it was fun to experiment with it. After that experiment, in the original box, i took out all the drivers and filter etc and put them in huge floorstanding towers i made, from MDF. Kept the same Ltr for the woofer and more or less the same damping, but to no avail; the bass never matched the bass from the original box anymore. Another lesson i did not forget...haha. Its just not that simple!
hope a can get a good advice. After reading some beginners articles here i scrapped the idea of starting from scratch completely. Lucky me, the only thing i bought sofar is a minidsp mic for measuring.
Now, what is my goal?
Well, i can put that quite simply; my wish is to build a standflooring speaker that sound much like the speakers i heard at a store lately; the Dynaudio Emit 30's
For my ears they sound very, very well. It is only the price of them that hold be back, else i would have them already.
So, time for plan two. Build something with that kind of soundstage myself.
Hopefully cheaper. Anyone who heard those Dynaudio Emit's, will know what i am looking for.
I think best words to descripe them is; very good detail, transparant, sparkling highs and tight but also quite deep bass. But the mids are just as fine to listen too. Very open. I would say natural.
What i am not looking for; anything that sounds like the KEF150/350 fullrange driven speaker. Heard them and they failed, they do sound oke, but if you compare them to the Emit 20's, you soon notice the mids are muffled, pianonotes seem "sticky", where i can count them on the Emit's. High is too soft too, for me. A couple of B&W i heard too, about sae priceclass did not cut it either; just cannot find myself into the "brittisch" sound. Too gentle, too boring.
Main reason i like the brighter speakers better, is my hearing; i lost some Db in the highs. So what sound way too bright for most of us, can sound exactly right for me. To be honest, many years ago i owned the Canton Quinto 540's, and they were more or less the same; good lows, nice mids, and sparkling highs. And then my ears were not wasted, so....
Anyway, hope there is a diy package that will surpise me and you can point me in the right direction
ps: i just love transmissionlines. Have played with it, on my poor Canton Quinto 540's, with a heavily flared port and that did sound amazing. By sure not correct, haha but it was fun to experiment with it. After that experiment, in the original box, i took out all the drivers and filter etc and put them in huge floorstanding towers i made, from MDF. Kept the same Ltr for the woofer and more or less the same damping, but to no avail; the bass never matched the bass from the original box anymore. Another lesson i did not forget...haha. Its just not that simple!
Personally i not heard the Emit M30, but if you want Dynaudio-like sound and look, check for Morel or Audio Technology (very pricey) drivers.
But in a loudspeaker's voice, the crossover counts at least as much as drives. So you need to build a well-functioning crossover for the right drivers and boxes. What is your skill at that?
The M30 looks like a 2.5-way design, so basically you need to create a 2-way speaker and put another woofer (the lower) for baffle-step loss compensation.
Or if you just want to build a good kit, check this:NOMEX-mkII
But in a loudspeaker's voice, the crossover counts at least as much as drives. So you need to build a well-functioning crossover for the right drivers and boxes. What is your skill at that?
The M30 looks like a 2.5-way design, so basically you need to create a 2-way speaker and put another woofer (the lower) for baffle-step loss compensation.
Or if you just want to build a good kit, check this:NOMEX-mkII
For a first project maybe start with a simple box rather than folded horn etc.
My first project was a pair of disco speakers.
So I just made a couple of boxes with couple of cheap Fane 12-50 speakers in them.
Sounded surprisingly good and incredibly loud when needed.
Crossovers are hard to get around even if you buy full range drivers as few are very flat.
My first project was a pair of disco speakers.
So I just made a couple of boxes with couple of cheap Fane 12-50 speakers in them.
Sounded surprisingly good and incredibly loud when needed.
Crossovers are hard to get around even if you buy full range drivers as few are very flat.
Well, the two bass/mid drivers work in parallel and cover the same range, unlike "normal" 2.5 inch designs. My skills are close to nothing, only that i read alot about it an take in all in. For a TL line, you want a midwoofer, not too big in diameter, with a QTS of aorud 0.4 ~ 0.5. That should work best, i hear. Not too big in diameter, because that will hurt the midrange. A 5 ~6.5 inch driver seems like the best option for a TL design.
The advantage of two midwoofers is that, in parallel mode, the SPL go up so
it can match the tweeters SPL easier. Am i amusing right, here?
I do want the tapered TL line design, from VOID. So the total lenght of the line can be shorter then a normal TL.
Here is a review with some measurements of the M30:
DYNAUDIO EMIT 30 - Zespoły głośnikowe | Testy w Audio.com.pl
DYNAUDIO EMIT 30 - Zespoły głośnikowe | Testy w Audio.com.pl
Thanks for all the input. It really helps me alot.
Anyway, i am thinking that i am going for a subwoofer for my first build. Since i already have nice floorstanding speaker, from Xanadu with very neutral sound. Xanadu is a small, well respected speakerbuilder from the Netherlands. The Xanadu DS10 which i own now, are there first , and cheapest model. That was around 1500 euro for a set by todays standards.
The only thing they lack is low bass. It goes low nice and smooth, but not so low as i wish. So a sub is more needed then a center. That leaves me another issue; space!
Really do not want to give up a rooms corner or any other "free" space.
That brings me to this; a 15inch boxed design:
Dayton Audio 15" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet Bundle
Just go give you a idea where this is going to. I want to replace my tv/stereo cabinet, with a new build containing two 15inch woofers at both end and space in the middle for the amp and mediabox.
Something like this: Maatwerk AV Meubelen | HEPTA Design Audio
I have 24inch depht, 20inch height and 60inch width to play with. Need about 18inch for the electronics in the middle which leaves 2 times 21 inch for the subwoofers left and right.
15inch seems to fit the bill, i guess. Will that leave space for a ported box?
Anyway, i am thinking that i am going for a subwoofer for my first build. Since i already have nice floorstanding speaker, from Xanadu with very neutral sound. Xanadu is a small, well respected speakerbuilder from the Netherlands. The Xanadu DS10 which i own now, are there first , and cheapest model. That was around 1500 euro for a set by todays standards.
The only thing they lack is low bass. It goes low nice and smooth, but not so low as i wish. So a sub is more needed then a center. That leaves me another issue; space!
Really do not want to give up a rooms corner or any other "free" space.
That brings me to this; a 15inch boxed design:
Dayton Audio 15" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet Bundle
Just go give you a idea where this is going to. I want to replace my tv/stereo cabinet, with a new build containing two 15inch woofers at both end and space in the middle for the amp and mediabox.
Something like this: Maatwerk AV Meubelen | HEPTA Design Audio
I have 24inch depht, 20inch height and 60inch width to play with. Need about 18inch for the electronics in the middle which leaves 2 times 21 inch for the subwoofers left and right.
15inch seems to fit the bill, i guess. Will that leave space for a ported box?
Well, i can put that quite simply; my wish is to build a standflooring speaker that sound much like the speakers i heard at a store lately; the Dynaudio Emit 30's
For my ears they sound very, very well. It is only the price of them that hold be back, else i would have them already.
I'll repeat what AllenB already advised, you can tune practically any well designed drivers to sound whatever you like, as Dynaudio for instance. Now, the issue is always the same, people are not exactly ready to learn. Perhaps a ready made kit? If so, others may help you better. Hobby Hifi and Klang&Ton has designed a ton of diy speakers of all kinds and it would make sense to further investigate.
Thanks Lojzek, for the input.
It is good to hear you do not need very expensive drivers to produce a good sound. Well designed does not have to be, right?
Anyway, starting from scratch with crossover filters etc. is indeed maybe a step too early for me. A subwoofer, however; is not that difficult i hear. Now, i already have two nice sounding floorstanders, Xanadu. Think DIY Needle, much the same. Great mids and highs.
A sub is what i need, and two subs are recommended by others. So, i thought, why not build me a nice cabinet, with two subs included ?
that gives me also i good learning curve. Now, i want to cut the bass of at around 100/160. Very low indeed.
Subwoofer Box for 12 inch subwoofer | Ported Box | Slot
Dont know if you can see what i have done here; but it gives me the dimensions for one box. The driver i have my eye on is the same one as this member uses:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/340419-wannabee-builder-build-speaker.html#post5857580
It is good to hear you do not need very expensive drivers to produce a good sound. Well designed does not have to be, right?
Anyway, starting from scratch with crossover filters etc. is indeed maybe a step too early for me. A subwoofer, however; is not that difficult i hear. Now, i already have two nice sounding floorstanders, Xanadu. Think DIY Needle, much the same. Great mids and highs.
A sub is what i need, and two subs are recommended by others. So, i thought, why not build me a nice cabinet, with two subs included ?
that gives me also i good learning curve. Now, i want to cut the bass of at around 100/160. Very low indeed.
Subwoofer Box for 12 inch subwoofer | Ported Box | Slot
Dont know if you can see what i have done here; but it gives me the dimensions for one box. The driver i have my eye on is the same one as this member uses:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/340419-wannabee-builder-build-speaker.html#post5857580
I thought of this kit after having a look at the Dynaudio:
The Solstice
Currently out of stock, but you may want to keep your eye on it if the cost plus shipping plus import duties is within your ballpark.
The Solstice
Currently out of stock, but you may want to keep your eye on it if the cost plus shipping plus import duties is within your ballpark.
That is unfortunate out of my reach, they do not ship to the netherlands.
Quite frankly, it is just a little too big also, just as the M30. Thats another reason i would not buy them. The floorstanders i have now, are 172mm x 172mm (w/d) and should i build a floorstander, i cannot go over 220mm width and 260mm depth max. That way, there still have some room to put them off the wall and turn them in.
But i am still on the subwoofer aka dual dual subwoofers in a tv/stereo cabinat path.
To get there, i start with one box to experiment and test. I think i have here some good drivers for the money, which seem to fit well in a 50~60Ltr vented box.
Subwoofer Box for 12 inch subwoofer | Ported Box | Slot
This is the driver: MONACOR SPH-300TC - 12" Subwoofer
Only thing thats worry me slighty is the low Qts of 0.24.
Quite frankly, it is just a little too big also, just as the M30. Thats another reason i would not buy them. The floorstanders i have now, are 172mm x 172mm (w/d) and should i build a floorstander, i cannot go over 220mm width and 260mm depth max. That way, there still have some room to put them off the wall and turn them in.
But i am still on the subwoofer aka dual dual subwoofers in a tv/stereo cabinat path.
To get there, i start with one box to experiment and test. I think i have here some good drivers for the money, which seem to fit well in a 50~60Ltr vented box.
Subwoofer Box for 12 inch subwoofer | Ported Box | Slot
This is the driver: MONACOR SPH-300TC - 12" Subwoofer
Only thing thats worry me slighty is the low Qts of 0.24.
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You don't need very expensive drivers. You can adjust their response. You can't always put them on a random baffle or box and expect them to sound the way you want.
and on a different note:
if the bottom and the top frequencies are important to you, consider a DIY F5 amplifier; either the smaller power original (if the speakers are sensitive enough) or one of its high power versions (V2, V3, X) if necessary.
note: you do not want a higher power version just for the heck of it as it is a class A amplifier.
note2: it has a limited V gain and may require a preamp (usually with a volume attenuator) on some sources to get it to full power output.
It is a wide bandwidth amp with a very good control top to bottom and usually not recommended for forward sounding and bright speakers but those that need a kick to bring forward a recessed top and and a superb tight control at the bottom. For speakers with a tough to drive passive Xover with excursions to lower impedances etc. Check Pass forum if interested.
Else,what others already said, with a miniDSP you can equalize it to anything and in real time while listening in your room. An immensely fun tool
if the bottom and the top frequencies are important to you, consider a DIY F5 amplifier; either the smaller power original (if the speakers are sensitive enough) or one of its high power versions (V2, V3, X) if necessary.
note: you do not want a higher power version just for the heck of it as it is a class A amplifier.
note2: it has a limited V gain and may require a preamp (usually with a volume attenuator) on some sources to get it to full power output.
It is a wide bandwidth amp with a very good control top to bottom and usually not recommended for forward sounding and bright speakers but those that need a kick to bring forward a recessed top and and a superb tight control at the bottom. For speakers with a tough to drive passive Xover with excursions to lower impedances etc. Check Pass forum if interested.
Else,what others already said, with a miniDSP you can equalize it to anything and in real time while listening in your room. An immensely fun tool
do you really think i should go for a inefficient class A amp ? Seen alot use class D amps for subwoofers; they are more efficient for less money. For a 120Hz > subwoofer they are great.
Oke, this is gonna be it: MONACOR SPH-300TC - 12" Subwoofer
Put into a +/- 66 liter box, vented slot. It is a dual coiled type, so i put it in parallel. That makes it a 4 ohm if i am not mistaken.
Should i buy a all in one class D amp, like this: MON SAM-300D: Klasse D subwoofer actieve module, 300 W tot 4 Ohm bei reichelt elektronik
or build one myself?
Oke, this is gonna be it: MONACOR SPH-300TC - 12" Subwoofer
Put into a +/- 66 liter box, vented slot. It is a dual coiled type, so i put it in parallel. That makes it a 4 ohm if i am not mistaken.
Should i buy a all in one class D amp, like this: MON SAM-300D: Klasse D subwoofer actieve module, 300 W tot 4 Ohm bei reichelt elektronik
or build one myself?
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