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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 17th July 2019, 08:45 PM   #11
koja is offline koja  Canada
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and I already gave you a reference to a finished speaker using that size coax and a matched bass unit (an 8-3/4 woofer plus a 10inch passive radiator). I can tell you that John Marsh and the guy who posted the passive Xover must have spent A LOT of time to get that kind of measured performance. I personally do not think it is worth the effort as such level of performance will require a lot less work with dedicated non-coax drivers and result in a simpler Xover likely easier to drive by the amp. But if that is what you want, it looks like they have enough documentation to communicate the design to you in 30min. Good luck.
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Old 17th July 2019, 09:43 PM   #12
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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10000 hz legend

What 10" woofer do you plan to use?
--What crossover frequency?
--One per cabinet?
--Parallel electrical connection low impedance load to one amp?
--Separate amp per 10" ?
--What type of equalization? LinkwitzTransform boost? DSP with room equalization

For the 6" Tang Band W6-2313, one pair of 8" woofers like the SB_Acoustics SB23NACS45-8 should have enough sealed box SPL after active boost. Each 8" SB23NACS45-8 in 1.3cuft sealed cabinet has FSC ~ 49Hz with Qtc ~ 0.7 with SPL ~88db
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Old 18th July 2019, 12:42 AM   #13
10000 hz legend is offline 10000 hz legend  United States
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Line Source -

I was looking at the Dayton Audio Designer Series 10” woofer, but as I mentioned I am open to suggestions. I am not sure about the crossover frequency either. I certainly want to limit excursion for the midrange, and I also want a nice warm punch and/or bump in the 70-100hz area.

I would like to wire the two woofers together in a shared enclosure.. If I go with the daytons I would run them parallel at 4ohms to the amp, unless this presents some other problems for the coaxial as far as spl. I don’t know if I’ll end up needing attenuation anywhere. I will not be using any EQ software. These will be stand alone loudspeakers with passive crossovers. I will likely boost the 20-40hz area when listening through my PC, but otherwise they will run flat out.
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Old 18th July 2019, 12:56 AM   #14
10000 hz legend is offline 10000 hz legend  United States
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Alright... So if I go with the Tang Band W6-2313 in a small sealed enclosure and the Dayton Audio Designer Series 10” Woofers (2) in a separate, shared, sealed enclosure; what would be some suggested enclosure sizes and crossover points?

Again, this is a stand alone speaker, no DSP digital EQ. Just passive crossover components.
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Old 18th July 2019, 03:17 AM   #15
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy19191 View Post
How to competently design a passive crossover requires some study but nothing major. It is also likely the design will be close but not quite right on the first attempt requiring a bit of measuring, listening, thinking and tweaking of component values. If you pay someone to run a bit of software for you this stage is likely to be lost.
The knowledge is required either way. Ie you just make it easier to make the same mistakes. That 'little bit of software' is highly dependent on the design being competent to begin with, before a crossover has even been considered.
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Old 18th July 2019, 03:49 AM   #16
LineSource is offline LineSource  United States
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DS270-8 10" Designer Series Woofer Speaker 8 Ohm

ONE DS270-8 Optimum Cabinet Size (determined using BassBox 6 Pro High Fidelity suggestion)

Sealed Volume 1.28 ft.≥ Sealed F3=55 Hz
Vented Volume 3.38 ft.≥ Vented F3=28 Hz
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Old 18th July 2019, 11:15 AM   #17
10000 hz legend is offline 10000 hz legend  United States
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Ok, so Iíll go with a 2.56 cubic ft enclosure for the woofers. What about the Tang Band W6-2313? I was thinking a small sealed enclosure, small enough to get me a high F3 and limit the excursion of the midrange. I donít know how high I could get the F3, but I was thinking around 120hz. Would it be worth adding an additional high pass around 60-80hz just to give the midrange some more control and less excursion? I really want to limit cone movement.

Somewhere someone said that a crossover had been designed for the Tang Band W6-2313, but I obviously donít think that design included a high pass for woofer integration. So what would be a good place to crossover to the two 10Ē woofers, and what is the best crossover frequency for the midrange and tweeter?
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Old 18th July 2019, 05:00 PM   #18
morbo is offline morbo  Canada
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You may already know this and forgive me if so, but at the risk of stating the obvious; a well-designed crossover is not as simple as choosing a frequency and inputting it into a calculator.

You need to measure the drive units in a baffle of the intended dimensions, or at the very least model their respective responses in the baffle using IEC baffle measurements. Then these measurements can be brought into crossover design CAD software and a crossover developed.
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Old 18th July 2019, 05:56 PM   #19
buggers is offline buggers  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10000 hz legend View Post

All I really need is someone to give me some suggestions of drivers that perform well in sealed enclosures, then enter the specifications of those drivers into a computer program and give me a few viable options for crossover designs. Then I choose one of those designs after some chatting about the pros and cons and I run with it. Then that someone sends me a wiring diagram and shopping list for crossover components. Pretty simple stuff I thought.
And what we are saying is you have an over-simplified view of what it takes to design a crossover. You do not plug some numbers into a computer program and it spits out a Xover schematic. Designing a Xover can easily take over 100 hours of work and no one is going to do that for you. This is called DIYourself Now if you want to play around with Simulations then we can point you to the right direction. Outside of that then you need to look at established designs if you care at all about sound quality.
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Old 18th July 2019, 06:37 PM   #20
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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I suspect 2 x DS270-8 in parallel and 1 x TBW6-2313 are pushing the limits of SPL compatability.*

Sensitivity of the woofers sits at about 90dB in the region you will use them. Add 6dB when you put 2 of them in parallel, so now you're at 96dB. Larger woofers and wider baffles tend to need a little less baffle step compensation plus this can depend on how far you place them from the walls and floor. But ignoring that for the moment, you'll lose 6dB with full baffle step compensation, so woofer sensitivity is back down to about 90dB.

Sensitivity for the TB coaxial though is only 87dB though you'll likely gain about 1 to 2dB through the baffle step peak and the effects of xo summation in the midrange, so maybe about 89dB. Which isn't too bad if you want a warm sounding speaker.

But.... you'll have absolutely no wiggle room in the mids if you need less than the full 6dB of baffle step compensation on the woofers. I've found that flexibility in design to be extremely important.

Since you won't be using eq, I'd also be looking for woofers with an F3 closer to 40Hz in a sealed box. Maybe push the Qtc up closer to .8 instead of .707 to get a little boost in your desired 70-100Hz range.

Maybe look at these woofers instead:
Peerless SLS 10"
Dayton RS270-8

For what you're after, I'd also be looking at this coaxial:
SB 6.5" coaxial
Notice the higher sensitivity, the much more open frame for the backwave and the large difference in Sd, the piston area.

I also don't recommend a small enclosure for the mid - it doesn't help much for absorbing the backwave leading to less clarity and more congestion. I prefer to oversize it and to add in the appropriate kinds of insulation to absorb the given frequency range.

* Technically speaking, if you are biamping, sensitivity compatibility is not actually strictly required between the woofers and the coaxial, but you'll never be able to run the speakers on just 1 amp. Not a good idea in my mind.
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