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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Crossover Upgrade Suggestions
Crossover Upgrade Suggestions
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Old 7th July 2019, 08:34 PM   #21
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawihornet View Post
What type of resistors would you recommend?
I really like the "ZISTERS" available from Meniscus. For the same reason I like the Superior Z caps from Jantzen. Clean, open, non-coloring, etc.

I like the Hepa-Litz inductors from Solen the best also for the same reasons.

Best of luck, happy experimenting!
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Old 7th July 2019, 08:35 PM   #22
kawihornet is offline kawihornet  Canada
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Nice I will check those out! Cheers!
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Old 7th July 2019, 09:45 PM   #23
geotone is offline geotone  Europe
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Science just can‘t compete with poetry I guess. Enjoy your ride!
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Old 7th July 2019, 09:47 PM   #24
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Originally Posted by kawihornet View Post
Nice I will check those out! Cheers!
If you are serious then here are a few things you can do so you can back out and get back to original if need be.

Leave the original crossovers alone but disconnect the input and output wires. Label them and make a diagram FIRST to avoid oh-crap moments later! Get a dual input terminal plate, cup whatever that has 2 sets of binding posts, terminals etc. Get some pegboard and make a new external crossover up on the peg board. This works well because you can cable tie the parts down. Carefully replace the original terminal set with the dual set. Even if it doesn't match up physically, you can screw it down temporarily just make sure there are no air leaks. Wire one set of terminals DIRECTLY to the tweeter, wire the other set DIRECTLY to the woofer. MAKE SURE TO MARK AND LABEL TWEETER AND WOOFER AND POLARITY before you close it up.

Now you can experiment with as many parts as you care to but still have the original you can go back to if need be. And, if the new crossover is too large, just mount it externally; leaving the original in place keeps the box volume the same...
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Old 7th July 2019, 10:20 PM   #25
denibeni is offline denibeni  Europe
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Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Assuming it's following the usual Dynaudio pattern it'll be a 1st order acoustic; likely 1st order electrical with a delay on the tweeter & whatever will give the desired slope for the midbass.
I don't even remember when I saw a 1st order Dynaudio speaker measurement. There were many of the old ones, but nowadays, almost every model is a high-order solution.
Here is the Special 40 step response from the Stereophile measurement. Typical 4th order acoustic crossover with the midwoofer one cycle behind the tweeter.

Dynaudio Special Forty loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Dyn_Spec_Forty_Step.jpg
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Old 7th July 2019, 10:29 PM   #26
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Originally Posted by geotone View Post
Science just can‘t compete with poetry I guess. Enjoy your ride!
Many good points and opinions here but, the truth is, higher quality crossover parts DO make a difference. There is a point of diminishing returns of course. I am a retired Engineer, Technician and former musician. I have played around with many different crossovers and drivers and can tell you with great confidence there are improvements to be made, sometimes significantly by using higher quality crossover parts. I do direct A-B comparisons with my most familiar recordings when fine tuning my final crossover for any new design. Again, there is a point of diminishing returns; you wouldn't use $100 capacitors on a $20 tweeter or midrange. Also again; if the drivers are capable of high resolution but inferior crossover parts are used; improvements can be made. If, however, the drivers are NOT very "musical" or "accurate" to begin with; you would wasting money upgrading the crossover.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:42 AM   #27
kawihornet is offline kawihornet  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denibeni View Post
I don't even remember when I saw a 1st order Dynaudio speaker measurement. There were many of the old ones, but nowadays, almost every model is a high-order solution.
Here is the Special 40 step response from the Stereophile measurement. Typical 4th order acoustic crossover with the midwoofer one cycle behind the tweeter.

Dynaudio Special Forty loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Attachment 766949
The Website lists the cross over as first order tho?
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:51 AM   #28
Bare is online now Bare  Canada
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Crossovers are a Traditional Profit centre for wannabee improvers.
Can only suggest; fill your dreams.. at least until the fever runs it's course.
Curiously No mention of amplifications or even source.
These too can /do muddy sounds, most certainly complex ones.
IMO lotsa speakers take the blame for poor downstream electronics.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:53 AM   #29
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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@nipper

No one says they can't. You overstate the potential effect. We are trying to keep it in perspective. There are other more significant potential avenues of improvement with this speaker. Component rolling is a potential trap for new players (and for those that don't understand crossover design, so it gets far too much attention IMO).
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:30 AM   #30
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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this can go on and on forever. If you do NOT know what you are doing; the path may lead nowhere. However; I am a retired Bell Labs Engineer and I can tell you for sure that what I have already said is true. I studied acoustics and electronics under the best minds in the entire world on many continents. Those that are afraid to experiment and piddle about are doomed for a very narrow box supposedly defined by strict adherence to science and math. You people are missing the point entirely! Musicians know best what sounds "right" and not quite "right" and really not "right". Stop adhering to strict principles and open up your minds and ears; you will be surprised at what lies beyond you're "understandings"!
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