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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 11th July 2019, 09:41 AM   #91
fatmarley is offline fatmarley  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
I was thinking escaping diffraction.
Yes, and that.
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Old 11th July 2019, 02:24 PM   #92
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Valid points people. I do the critical listening from my usual listening position AFTER I have done the very close-up A-B comparisons. I repeat this MANY times over. Also, I sometimes just do a single driver all by itself to compare the effects within it's own intended pass-band. It may take me hours, sometimes days to really "fine-tune" a final crossover configuration. The point I keep making about live music and musicians is that I feel I have an extra keen sense of what sounds "just right" verses something is not quite right here but I'm not sure what exactly. Take for example the sound of a bass clarinet. I have a particular jazz recording that is very well recorded. I use this as one of my many references. The harmonics and overtones, etc. of a bass clarinet are much more subtle than say that of a tenor or baritone saxophone. If the overall spectral balance is somehow "off"; the bass clarinet can sound either too hollow and dull or too edgy and bright. I know when I get this balance "just right"; I have the fine-tuning within say the final 5% or so of a "final" configuration.

If I DID have expensive test equipment available; I WOULD use it. Again; I trust my ears.

What chemical and physical and electrical properties, etc. of say a well designed capacitor do not concern me greatly. All I care about is what gives me the most musically accurate sound qualities I am seeking within any given price range. I rather enjoy the journey of mix and match if you will; the whole process of "fine-tuning: as I call it is actually very enjoyable for me. I have all the time I need to work on any given "project"; as I said before; what ever floats your boat and frosts your cookies...
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Old 13th July 2019, 07:10 PM   #93
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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OK, let's try to close the loop on this. Many of you by now think I am totally off by my statements.

I have talked to many sound men, recording Engineers and so called music producers over many years and yes. even decades!

They ALL depend on their ability to hear and use as their very FINAL judgement on their own ears!

For you other people still skeptical; I worked for the ORIGINAL Bell Labs; acoustics and electronics today depend on what we researched and experimented in the past. If you have a problem with that; then you should be ashamed and go back to fundamental research of how this all came about to begin with!

I have ZERO apologies!
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Old 13th July 2019, 09:51 PM   #94
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Since your very first post on this thread was to advise the OP to randomly change crossover components for others of the same value, and not even hint that he might want to assess the fundamentals of his loudspeaker's design (such as on / off axis FR, distortion performance, crossover electrical and acoustical design &c., all of which completely dominate the sonic character), you may wish to recall your time at Bell more thoroughly. I have yet to meet or converse with one of their engineers who would even dream of advising somebody who is dissatisfied with a product to ignore basic engineering known to dominate performance in favour of wildly changing components for others of equivalent base value. In fact, they would be horrified that their engineering legacy was being sullied by claims to the contrary.
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Last edited by Scottmoose; 13th July 2019 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 13th July 2019, 10:54 PM   #95
asuslover is offline asuslover  Romania
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Crossover Upgrade Suggestions
Initially the op asked for opinions about replacing the caps without other info. Superior z caps are definitely better caps than the Bennics , so replacing the Bennics with the superior z ones will not hurt.
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Old 13th July 2019, 11:12 PM   #96
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by nipper1 View Post
OK, let's try to close the loop on this. Many of you by now think I am totally off by my statements.
Please I've agreed with you more times than you'd care to admit.
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Old 13th July 2019, 11:33 PM   #97
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Yes, we all have our beliefs and opinions. The original idea was to change capacitors to try to improve sound. Yes, it CAN make a HUGE difference, NO, it is not the first step necessarily! Again, there are MANY tricks in the tool box. If the OP wants to experiment and try different caps; I totally support that. If they want to do a thorough analysis with the most sophisticated test equipment in the world; there is nothing wrong with that either. For less than $50US and zero experience with nothing more than a few clip leads; a valid experiment can be performed. This was my original intent to support that. As the thread became more complex, more details became apparent. That is basically how I see it.
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Old 14th July 2019, 06:52 AM   #98
fatmarley is offline fatmarley  England
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Looking at online reviews for this speaker I can't see anyone complaining about things getting overwhelmed. Maybe the amp isn't up to driving the speakers? I'd be surprised if Dynaudio produced a speaker that suffered from this problem, even more so seeing as it's a one-off special to celebrate "40 years of cutting-edge research"

As for sounding slightly muddy, I wonder if that's got anything to do with the low frequency extension? In the reviews it did say they go pretty deep for a standmount, so that combined with room gain/boundary reinforcement could cause peaks in the low frequencies and muddy the sound.
You could try temporarily extending the port to see if a lower port tuning frequency helps. Just stick some rolled up cardboard in the port and let it hand out the back.
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Old 14th July 2019, 11:57 AM   #99
schiirrn is offline schiirrn  Germany
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Maybe we can just ignore that guy who at age 63 has already been retired for so long that he forgot about all engineering practice and terminology.

(But what do we know, he basically invented loudspeakers at Bell!)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Since your very first post on this thread was to advise the OP to randomly change crossover components for others of the same value, and not even hint that he might want to assess the fundamentals of his loudspeaker's design (such as on / off axis FR, distortion performance, crossover electrical and acoustical design &c., all of which completely dominate the sonic character), you may wish to recall your time at Bell more thoroughly. I have yet to meet or converse with one of their engineers who would even dream of advising somebody who is dissatisfied with a product to ignore basic engineering known to dominate performance in favour of wildly changing components for others of equivalent base value. In fact, they would be horrified that their engineering legacy was being sullied by claims to the contrary.
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Old 14th July 2019, 12:12 PM   #100
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Originally Posted by schiirrn View Post
Maybe we can just ignore that guy who at age 63 has already been retired for so long that he forgot about all engineering practice and terminology.

(But what do we know, he basically invented loudspeakers at Bell!)
Ha ha, another good one! I am not against getting to the true root of the problem via proven scientific methods and standards; quite the contrary. I really was literally surrounded by some of the best minds in acoustics and electronics, etc. as well as having access to some of the most sophisticated, SOA test equipment in the world. These were my points all along about the legacy.

If you go back through the posts, you will see that there are others agreeing with me. Swapping a few components is a very inexpensive, quick and simple thing to do for anyone that can use basic tools and a soldering iron. Obtaining the necessary test equipment, calibrated microphones and any and everything else one would need to do proper testings is NOT quick, cheap or easy to do. It really just comes down to that, the original question was about trying to modify a crossover to obtain better sound "quality". Part of the answer is yes it can "sometimes" make a huge difference and all you need is a decent recording and your own two ears...end of the story...
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