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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Freq measurements and Hypex Filter Design adjustments
Freq measurements and Hypex Filter Design adjustments
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Old 22nd July 2019, 12:56 AM   #61
CharlieLaub is offline CharlieLaub  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denibeni View Post
I mean non-gated farfield response. How you want to tame room modes with a gated response?
The guy is struggling to get a crossover developed using his Hypex gear. Forget about "room modes", that's not what he needs to focus on at the moment. Instead try to help him get the basics working, first.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 01:12 AM   #62
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denibeni View Post
How you want to tame room modes with a gated response?
Interesting that you used the word tame here, rather than fix (and I would have called you if you did). It takes time to establish whether the response can be tweaked like this, and hence scheduled for permanent inclusion in a crossover. Response variations, such as room modes are merely incidental occurrences. Sometimes you need to rework at some higher level to get the wanted result.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 03:42 AM   #63
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Guys! Please see what i wrote before at post #57!

I suggested leaving the bottom-end of the woofer as it is now, before you take my head.

I wrote it because he straightened it on the drawing (zone 1).
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Old 22nd July 2019, 07:00 AM   #64
Steve2111 is offline Steve2111
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Hi
Thanks for the interest from everybody. Much appreciated. I take on your suggestions.
The images I sent were nearfield Woofer no filters, nearfiled Mid no filters and farfield all drivers with xovers (to protect Tweeter)
What I was looking for, just to get me to understand Hypex Filter Designer, is what filters to use in Zones 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. I hope that would get me going before checking the PHASE
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Old 22nd July 2019, 11:35 AM   #65
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Ok, i try to give some help to response flattening for the 500hz and 2kHz LR4 filters:

Zone 1: forget about it now

Zone 2: extend the flattening to 1kHz (1 octave up from the crossover point) with a /Highself1, 500Hz, 6dB gain/, and tame that skyscraper peak around 1.3kHz with /BoostCut, 1300Hz, Q10, -15dB gain/ apply to the woofer channel.

Zone 3: extend the flattening range from 250Hz to 4000Hz (1 octave up and down) and tame the peak at 4kHz.
To 250Hz /Lowshelf2, 250Hz, Q0.7, 15dB gain/.
To 4kHz /Highself2, 4kHz, Q0.7, 15dB gain/
Taming peak /BoostCut, 4.2Khz, Q9, -6dB gain/ and /BoostCut 4.8kHz, Q10, -6dB gain/
Apply to the midrange channel.

Zone 4-5: requires the tweeter's gated response without filter, just don't do it too loud.

These parameters is just approximate values, always needs to experiment with other values and measure the outcome. Nothing is set in stone but you get a picture what's going if you try these filters what i wrote.
Frequency response measurement is not required at high volume.
Ahh and always start with 0dB gain for the channels.

I don't want to explain where to use what filters, because the filter functions is already good described in the HFD manual at page 14.

Last edited by YSDR; 22nd July 2019 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 01:54 PM   #66
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Alternatively you can combine the midrange driver's own slopes as a part of the crossover filter.
It looks close to a Q=0.71 2nd order slopes at both sides, you can confirm this with a target response overlay in ARTA.
You already know that you get a LR4 response if you combine 2xQ=0.71 2nd order filter. So you just need to find the -3dB points of the midrange driver, which is around 400Hz and 2.8kHz according to your measurement.

So if you apply a single /highpass2, 400Hz, Q=0.71/ and a single /lowpass2, 2800Hz, Q=0.71/ to the midrange you get a 400Hz and 2.8kHz LR4 response.
This way you don't need to flatten the midrange response. But if the original driver slopes are very different than Q=0.71 the combining to true LR4 response may not works. Anyway it is recommended to filter the peak around 4 kHz.

Last edited by YSDR; 22nd July 2019 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 03:01 PM   #67
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denibeni View Post
Anyway it is recommended to filter the peak around 4 kHz.
It is, by whom?
Quote:
because with DSP you can easily equalize the cone break-ups
..because with DSP you can more easily move in without thinking.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 03:16 PM   #68
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
It is, by whom?
..because with DSP you can more easily move in without thinking.
What? I wrote an example filter to tame the 4-5kHz peak in post #65.

What about thinking? Explain it please!
I meant that the resonance peaks around break-up could be easily equalized and not that defeated completely. What's wrong with that?

Last edited by YSDR; 22nd July 2019 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 03:41 PM   #69
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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What's wrong with that? Breakup is not just resonance peaks. You wouldn't see this on a two dimensional plot like given above. You'd have to know this separately.

Consider this link. 2/3 down the article there is a CSD. It doesn't even tell the whole story, but might help.

So far we've only mentioned the peak that you can see on the plot.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 04:07 PM   #70
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
What's wrong with that? Breakup is not just resonance peaks. You wouldn't see this on a two dimensional plot like given above. You'd have to know this separately.

Consider this link. 2/3 down the article there is a CSD. It doesn't even tell the whole story, but might help.

So far we've only mentioned the peak that you can see on the plot.
Yeah, i know well that a break up is not just a frequency peak. But the timing related problems (e.g. ringing) is out of reach to solve.
If the peak is equalized and the crossover point is not in the close proximity then a LR4 crossover is usually enough. But if you want to use 96dB/octave or whatever brickwall sloped crossover, then use it, it's your choice.
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