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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Freq measurements and Hypex Filter Design adjustments
Freq measurements and Hypex Filter Design adjustments
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:57 PM   #41
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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There are many ways to skin a cat. I have zero experience of designing passive xos, but the freedom of choices that dsp gives is just fantastic. And you can easily create several layouts and listen to them - a wonderful playground for us little boys with propeller-hats!

First study the "natural respionse of each driver in baffle/box, also off-axis. Then eq the low end roll-off, baffle step and cone resonance peaks. Check the low-end distortion of eq'd drivers too!

By previous, you have and idea of where and what order xo you can set, to get good phase match with even order symmetrix xo or anything special that you like. With 3-4 ways you can use LR2 which sounds superior to LR4 to my ears. Mid-tweet xo is usually the most challenging. Make 2-3 alternative versions and listen!

A 2-way is always a bad compromise and in my opinion total waste of diy-time.
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Old 8th July 2019, 02:20 PM   #42
CharlieLaub is offline CharlieLaub  United States
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Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
A 2-way is always a bad compromise and in my opinion total waste of diy-time.
Note: there is a thread for that sentiment!

Warning RANT ahead: I totally agree, yet this is what many of the passive crossover DIY loudspeaker builders are making. Sometimes the DIY meet is full of them, although it's not nearly as bad as a small fullranger in a horn! Nearby me (now) there are a number of good loudspeaker DIY folks, and to make it interesting they impose some kind of "twist" (usually a limitation of some kind) and then have a competition. This has been things like "use only 5 of fewer crossover components" or "your design must include driver X". Fine, I guess if that sparks some interest and creativity.

Heck, I own and listen to (on a daily basis) an awesome pair of not expensive 2-way loudspeakers: the powered JBL 306P mkII. I think the sound is fantastic above 100Hz (it's augmented by a DIY sub below 100Hz) and they cost me a mere $160 each, delivered. Why in the world would I DIY a small 2-way when I can purchase a speaker like this? It has its limitations in SPL and so on, but within its comfort zone this is IMHO an amazing speaker for the price. Instead, save your DIY loudspeaker efforts for something that is a little more special than a boxed 2-way...

I feel that using active systems with DSP releases you from so many constraints related to loudspeaker building you are free to explore questions like "what kind of loudspeaker (response) might sound best" and build loudspeakers that you just cannot buy because they are impractical or not cost effective for a business to build, distribute, and sell, or that you just could not afford otherwise (without building them yourself).
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Old 8th July 2019, 02:34 PM   #43
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by CharlieLaub View Post
you are free to explore questions like "what kind of loudspeaker (response) might sound best"
You never owned an analogue equaliser?
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Old 8th July 2019, 05:49 PM   #44
CharlieLaub is offline CharlieLaub  United States
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You never owned an analogue equaliser?
An EQ/PEQ only changes the input power vs frequency. It cannot change the radiation pattern of the loudspeaker itself, or correct certain other response problems.

Once you build a flawed speaker you cannot "un-flaw" it using EQ.
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Old 8th July 2019, 06:17 PM   #45
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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It cannot change the radiation pattern
Why would you want to do that?
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Old 8th July 2019, 09:01 PM   #46
CharlieLaub is offline CharlieLaub  United States
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Why would you want to do that?
Because not all radiation patterns "sound" the same. They are an inherent property of the type of drivers chosen, and the type of loading they are put in. There is a mighty big difference in the radiation patterns of boxes, horns, and open-back or free-air loading... but the differences cannot be changed by changing the input signal in terms of phase and amplitude (e.g. by EQ or filtering).

The radiation pattern is fixed early on in the design process and you are stuck with it there and afterwards.

Choose wisely.
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Old 9th July 2019, 04:49 AM   #47
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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I put much into designing the wanted directivity. I won't use a horn randomly. I will even invent my own horn. But I don't need to change it later because it is already correct.
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Old 9th July 2019, 08:19 AM   #48
Steve2111 is offline Steve2111
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Default Freq measurements and Hypex Filter Design adjustments

Well this is as far as I've got with measurements

IMAGES

Woofer24smooth is nearfield Woofer only, rest muted

Mid24smooth is nearfield Mid range only, rest muted

Focusrite19-5-19 etc is farfield with all drivers unmuted with LR4 crossovers at 500Hz and 2KHz (I did not want to measure Tweeter without protective Highpass) Reliable ? above 300Hz

These were taken with Dayton EMM6, Focusrite Solo and ARTA. Would it have been better to have used HFD (Hypex?)

What's next?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Woofer24smooth.JPG (519.8 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg Mid24smooth.JPG (504.5 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg Focusrite19-5-19256Ktwentyforthsmoothing.jpg (670.9 KB, 334 views)
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Old 9th July 2019, 08:22 AM   #49
Steve2111 is offline Steve2111
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Forgot to mention. On Focusrite 19-5-19 Woofer channel gain 10dB, Mid channel Gain 2.5dB and tweeter 0. This was an estimate after previous trial measurements.
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Old 9th July 2019, 08:33 AM   #50
YSDR is offline YSDR  Europe
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You can set target response curves with ARTA in the overlay menu.
For example, if you want 500Hz and 2kHz LR4 response for the mid, you can set the target and compare your response to the target, nearfield is for woofer only.
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