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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 25th June 2019, 12:41 PM   #11
celef is offline celef
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so you think driver inductance is a isolated parameter that does not effect box sizing and frequency response, so good for you
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Old 25th June 2019, 01:27 PM   #12
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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No, I think that if you wish to make blanket statements without any semblence of context, caveats or anything else whatsoever, you cannot expect it to be recieved as anything other than the twaddle it is. For the vast majority of low frequency enclosures designed Le is of little consequence, and if you are claiming otherwise, you will have to overcome the formidable obstacle of literally millions of loudspeaker LF enclosures that work as the designers intended, which do not factor VC inductance into the lumped element LF modelling.

As far as LF enclosure design is concerned, Le primarily becomes of note when the electrical [and as relevant acoustical] corner created is sufficiently near the box operating BW to produce non-linearities in the frequency / amplitude response. Subwoofers apart these are atypical conditions, so a blanket claim that 'any box simulation that does not take driver voice coil inductance into account is pretty much useless' is complete nonsense.
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Old 25th June 2019, 01:50 PM   #13
thornton102 is offline thornton102  United States
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any box simulation that does not take driver voice coil inductance into account is pretty much useless
I wondered about that too. What if you add a reciprocal circuit to counteract the inductance (sorry, but I can't remember what it's called)?
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Old 25th June 2019, 01:54 PM   #14
thornton102 is offline thornton102  United States
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Driver specs often aren't accurate, especially cheaper drivers and Vas is usually off at least a little regardless of price.
So do you recommend I go with the calculated Vas, then?
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Old 25th June 2019, 01:57 PM   #15
thornton102 is offline thornton102  United States
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Nowadays we normally use some form of TL for alignments with a > 0.403 Qts' to get extended ~flat responses to a < Fs tuning, hence the popularity of Hornresp [HR].

GM
Funny that you mention TL's since I've been interested in them since the late '70's! I definitely need to check out Hornresp.
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Old 25th June 2019, 02:24 PM   #16
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No, I think that if you wish to make blanket statements without any semblence of context, caveats or anything else whatsoever, you cannot expect it to be recieved as anything other than the twaddle it is. For the vast majority of low frequency enclosures designed Le is of little consequence, and if you are claiming otherwise, you will have to overcome the formidable obstacle of literally millions of loudspeaker LF enclosures that work as the designers intended, which do not factor VC inductance into the lumped element LF modelling.
you can model le losses in basta! and hornresp, do some simulations and then say this is not an important parameter!
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Old 25th June 2019, 02:31 PM   #17
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I wondered about that too. What if you add a reciprocal circuit to counteract the inductance (sorry, but I can't remember what it's called)?
no i think you need to adress this in the driver magnet system by using copper rings/sleeves
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Old 25th June 2019, 03:58 PM   #18
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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So what you are saying is that people should address VC inductive rise by ripping their drive units to pieces and somehow provide them with full symmetric drive (redesigning the rest of the motor, and potentially the suspension and cone also to account for the changes in behaviour in the process). Which even if it were realistic, is of scant relevance to the majority of back loaded or bass enclosures, which, as you know perfectly well, are only operative or useful over an extremely limited BW before they reach their upper corner (or GD becomes excessive), thus Le has little relevance to the acoustical behaviour of most loudspeaker cabinets in their operating BW. VC inductance (rather than a static figure of Le, which is typically only given for 1KHz or an alternative single frequency) is a major factor in other areas of loudspeaker design, but not for the acoustic behaviour of the majority of loudspeaker bass enclosures.
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:04 PM   #19
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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I wondered about that too. What if you add a reciprocal circuit to counteract the inductance (sorry, but I can't remember what it's called)?
They're usually called Zobel networks -whether that's strictly correct is debatable, but it's a reasonable enough handle. Series RC circuit shunted across the driver with the object of flattening the VC impedance rise, although a series RC shunt is sometimes used for EQ / trimming the HF response also, although you have to go easy if you don't want the HF impedance load to drop too low.

If you're interested in TLs, you should read Martin King's pages Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design if you want to know some of the physics. Start with the pdf 'Anatomy of a Transmission Line' under the 'Transmission Line Theory' tab, and move on from there.
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:17 PM   #20
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So what you are saying is that people should address VC inductive rise by ripping their drive units to pieces and somehow provide them with full symmetric drive (redesigning the rest of the motor, and potentially the suspension and cone also to account for the changes in behaviour in the process). Which even if it were realistic, is of scant relevance to the majority of back loaded or bass enclosures, which, as you know perfectly well, are only operative or useful over an extremely limited BW before they reach their upper corner (or GD becomes excessive), thus Le has little relevance to the acoustical behaviour of most loudspeaker cabinets in their operating BW. VC inductance (rather than a static figure of Le, which is typically only given for 1KHz or an alternative single frequency) is a major factor in other areas of loudspeaker design, but not for the acoustic behaviour of the majority of loudspeaker bass enclosures.
no i do not say that people should break their drivers, just to take driver inductance into the modelling
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