Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Synergy Horn with AMT
Synergy Horn with AMT
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd June 2019, 09:14 AM   #1
de45dd is offline de45dd
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default Synergy Horn with AMT

Hi,

just have seen the all the cool threads about Synergy horns and I am also interessted in building one. But in generall I prefer the sound of an AMT over an compression driver.

What do you think will a Synergy horn also work with an AMT on his back?

I am currently thinking about the following configuration:

- Mundorf AMT29CM1.1-R (working from 1,5khz and above)
- 2x PHL 6,5 Inch - 1752ndu Low-Mid on the Synergy Horns left and right side (working from 200Hz to 1,5khz) in about 10 liters.
- 1x BMS 15 Inch - 15N840 Woofer below the Synergy horn (30Hz to 200Hz) in 75 Liter closed box

Attached are the first quick and dirty scetches. Horn is calculated with BWaslos Synergy Horn spredsheet (90x50). I cust moved the height in the back to the AMTīs diagraph height. Distance from AMT to the middle of the openings will be 5,7 cm, if I will move them a little more away from the edges into the middle of the horn (currently itīs about 6,7cm distance because openings are in the edges), so that 1,5khz crossover (1/4 wavelenght rule) should be possible.

What do you think? Is it worth a try or wont this work?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (69.4 KB, 766 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (56.2 KB, 774 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (64.7 KB, 773 views)
File Type: jpg 4.jpg (220.4 KB, 767 views)

Last edited by de45dd; 23rd June 2019 at 09:47 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2019, 03:23 PM   #2
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Ive only read a little about synergy horns, but i think its worth a shot, especially with a really good AMT like the Mundorf. Although, wouldn't it be possible to have it cover from about 2.5k and up instead? It should be a lot cleaner sound.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2019, 05:48 PM   #3
de45dd is offline de45dd
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
The problem with crossing higher is the synergy horn rule, that the distance (along the middle of the horn) from high frequency diagraph to the middle of the midbass-opening-windows shouldnīt be higher than 1/4 the wavelenght of the crossover frequency. I have also read that the opening-windows should be if possible in the corners. So to keep the openings (in this case four for each horn see my Pictures in first post) near to a Corners they will be About 5,5 - 6cm away from amt which means an crossover Point of 1,5khz.

I donīt know how important it is to make the openings near the corner. If I could place them in the middle of the horn (see attached Picture) I could bring them up to 3,3cm away from AMT which means possible crossover up to 2,5khz.
So can maybe someone of the Synergy specialist tell me why the openings should be in the corners and which disadavantages I will have when placed in the middle?

If I will go up with the openings in the corners and 1,5khz crossover. What do you think can the AMT29 crossed that low with Maybe LR24?
I have seen measuremts of the AMT29 in german Magazin Hobby hifif and the distortion is very low above 1khz even at 20V. The resonance freqeuncy of the driver is at 1,5khz. So any reason why not cross there, even to consider that itīs horn loaded here?
On the other case I have heard from some people that the other big AMT on the market, the Beyma TPL150H sounds terrible crossed lower than 2khz and this one also have very low distortion at Hobby hif above 1khz. So distortion does not seem to be the only indicator of how deep to cross a Driver.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg middle.jpg (74.2 KB, 667 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2019, 07:23 PM   #4
Patrick Bateman is online now Patrick Bateman  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Should work fine. Your midranges are too big.

See my ribbon Unity horn here : Ribbon Unity Horn

Synergy Horn is patented by Danley Sound Labs. Better to build Unity horns, patent is expired.

Click the image to open in full size.
Response of my ribbon unity horn elements

Click the image to open in full size.
Polars of my ribbon unity horn
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2019, 07:41 PM   #5
de45dd is offline de45dd
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
many thanks! Why do you think they are too big for an Unity horn?
I wanted to use them down to About 200Hz crossed to an 15 Inch Woofer so I thought some additional sd can be good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
Should work fine.
The verison with one openeing in the middle and higher crossover or the one with outer openings and 1,5khz crossover?

I am also thinking About 4x 5 Inch PHL 930 instead of two 6,5 Inch (see attached scetches).
In this case I can have both. I can put openings in the edges and I can move them up to 3,3cm in distance to the AMT. But itīs more costly in the end.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2019, 08:34 PM   #6
de45dd is offline de45dd
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
4x 5 Inch version
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5er_1.jpg (138.0 KB, 106 views)
File Type: jpg 5er_2.jpg (43.7 KB, 114 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2019, 02:19 AM   #7
LewinskiH01 is offline LewinskiH01  Argentina
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Buenos Aires
Considering the Beyma TPL-150H is well behaved above 2kHz, wouldn't an extension of the Beyma horn such that it accommodate the midrange drivers be a good place to start? Extend to a size per Bwaslo's spreadsheet for the midrange cutoff frequency, had maybe 4x 4" midranges (2 per side of the TPL), down to 30 or 400Hz...bad idea??
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2019, 03:59 AM   #8
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post

Synergy Horn is patented by Danley Sound Labs. Better to build Unity horns, patent is expired.
He's showing a "Unity" in the pic., so presumably that's what he meant.


Though moot (in this instance):

Is the "Synergy" really patented? (..reading the "Unity" patent that expired - it reads as if it covered the "Synergy" addition: in other words if there is an additional patent, I'm thinking it's void.)
__________________
perspective is everything
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2019, 07:45 AM   #9
de45dd is offline de45dd
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Sorry but what exactly is the difference between synegy and unity horn?
I mean this one here:
Index of /SynergyCalc



Quote:
Originally Posted by de45dd View Post
I donīt know how important it is to make the openings near the corner. If I could place them in the middle of the horn (see attached Picture) I could bring them up to 3,3cm away from AMT which means possible crossover up to 2,5khz.
So can maybe someone of the Synergy specialist tell me why the openings should be in the corners and which disadavantages I will have when placed in the middle?

If I will go up with the openings in the corners and 1,5khz crossover. What do you think can the AMT29 crossed that low with Maybe LR24?
I have seen measuremts of the AMT29 in german Magazin Hobby hifif and the distortion is very low above 1khz even at 20V. The resonance freqeuncy of the driver is at 1,5khz. So any reason why not cross there, even to consider that itīs horn loaded here?
On the other case I have heard from some people that the other big AMT on the market, the Beyma TPL150H sounds terrible crossed lower than 2khz and this one also have very low distortion at Hobby hif above 1khz. So distortion does not seem to be the only indicator of how deep to cross a Driver.
Would be cool to get your opinions regarding these two questions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2019, 09:46 AM   #10
kipman725 is online now kipman725  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
kipman725's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Warrington
Send a message via MSN to kipman725
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewinskiH01 View Post
Considering the Beyma TPL-150H is well behaved above 2kHz, wouldn't an extension of the Beyma horn such that it accommodate the midrange drivers be a good place to start? Extend to a size per Bwaslo's spreadsheet for the midrange cutoff frequency, had maybe 4x 4" midranges (2 per side of the TPL), down to 30 or 400Hz...bad idea??
https://www.beyma.com/speakers/Ficha.../000003065.pdf

I'm note sure I could cope with such narrow vertical dispersion, current speakers are 40 degree nominal and I find myself wanting more like 60 degree in most situations. Thinking aloud would some kind of 3d printed grid turning the horn into a multi-cellular in the vertical plane fix the collapsing vertical directivity?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Synergy Horn with AMTHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Synergy horn for 135 dB+ Thijs666 Multi-Way 107 24th November 2018 05:07 PM
horn, bandpass, horn, synergy? fotsinijts Multi-Way 32 31st August 2018 10:30 AM
M2 Synergy Horn Patrick Bateman Multi-Way 43 23rd December 2017 03:08 PM
DIY Synergy horn paulspencer Multi-Way 53 5th December 2015 10:29 AM
synergy like horn, using CD rvrazvan Multi-Way 5 4th November 2011 09:28 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:15 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki