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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Synergy Horn with AMT
Synergy Horn with AMT
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Old 24th June 2019, 09:03 AM   #11
de45dd is offline de45dd
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Originally Posted by LewinskiH01 View Post
Considering the Beyma TPL-150H is well behaved above 2kHz, wouldn't an extension of the Beyma horn such that it accommodate the midrange drivers be a good place to start? Extend to a size per Bwaslo's spreadsheet for the midrange cutoff frequency, had maybe 4x 4" midranges (2 per side of the TPL), down to 30 or 400Hz...bad idea??

The idea in general is not bad but there are a few reasons I donīt want to do that.


1. I wanted to use the Mundorf instead the Beyma
2. Due to optical reasons the Horn has to mach to the 15 inch woofer size and I also want to build the Horn with MDF same as the complete front of the box to have an common look.

3. I wanted to use 6,5 woofers to cover the complete midrange down to 200Hz. The 6,5 woofers will not fit physically on the smaller TPL Horn.
I donīt think that any 4 inch woofer is able to handle that low without beeing extremely stressed.
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Old 24th June 2019, 01:38 PM   #12
de45dd is offline de45dd
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most important question for me still is if I can put the openings in the middle of the horn or I have to put them in the edges?


This will decide the distance to AMT-diagraphm and then which midwoofer-size I can use and which crossover point I can make.
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Old 27th June 2019, 07:09 PM   #13
de45dd is offline de45dd
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where are the Unity horn specialists? Does the Openings Need to be in the edges of the horn?
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Old 27th June 2019, 07:47 PM   #14
RobWells is offline RobWells  United Kingdom
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Yes put them in the corners (not a specialist but I have read a bit about the unity / synergy horns)

The reason is that the ports will have the least detrimental effect on the tweeter response when placed in the corners.
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Old 27th June 2019, 08:18 PM   #15
Patrick Bateman is offline Patrick Bateman  United States
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Originally Posted by de45dd View Post
most important question for me still is if I can put the openings in the middle of the horn or I have to put them in the edges?


This will decide the distance to AMT-diagraphm and then which midwoofer-size I can use and which crossover point I can make.
If you have a 3D printer, I've found that nothing outperforms the mid-range taps that I use. Basically the idea is a loooong ribbon shaped tap. By making the tap extra long, you can make it skinny. And skinny taps screw with the overall response less.

In my Ribbon Unity project, the mid-range taps were perpendicular to the wavefront. In my current project, they're in the corners. Both options have their advantages.

JBL uses parallel mid-range taps in their Vertec speaker.

EAW uses fractal taps in Anya.
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Old 27th June 2019, 10:19 PM   #16
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Synergy Horn with AMT
For what it's worth (maybe not a lot), I was never able to get taps in the corners to work out right. Not that I tried a lot of iterations. But the CoSynes taps weren't in the corners, and worked out pretty well (luck). And when I tried to redo them with taps in corners in a set of REALLY PRETTY wood veneer preserving waveguides that were otherwise similar, the off axis response was horrid. My thought then was that maybe it was because moving the taps to the corners moved them away from each other.
Synergy Horn with AMT-dimensions-photo-png
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Old 28th June 2019, 05:52 AM   #17
de45dd is offline de45dd
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Both options have their advantages.
Very interessting post! So what hear from you, itīs maybe the best to start with an skinny ribbon shaped tab.
Which advantages and disadvantages do you see between the differnt placement of the tabs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
But the CoSynes taps weren't in the corners, and worked out pretty well (luck). And when I tried to redo them with taps in corners in a set of REALLY PRETTY wood veneer preserving waveguides that were otherwise similar, the off axis response was horrid.
Also very interessting. Do you have an picture of the CoSynes Horn (where the tabs where not in the corners)?
Do you still have measurments of the both version (off axis problems)?
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Old 28th June 2019, 06:22 PM   #18
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Measurements are probably on an old hard drive somewhere, but not readily available. I do have this photo from during construction which sort of shows how the ports look (Patrick has the actual speakers, he could probably provide a better photo).
Synergy Horn with AMT-assembly-jpg

The horns are rectangular, and moving the ports into the corners changed them from a square configuration (all the ports the same distance from their neighbors and as close as they could be to center) to rectangular (further apart horizontally). It also changed the paths they took slightly (because each ports were cut into edges of two walls rather than into just a single wall). A complication was that the tweeter used could not go down very low so the midranges had to perform higher in frequency than a lot of syn designs, so mids being close was a pretty important thing.
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Last edited by bwaslo; 28th June 2019 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 28th June 2019, 06:31 PM   #19
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Another maybe interesting data point (well, not data, more anecdote) is that when I did the first large 3DPrinted waveguide, the midrange ports seemed to be virtually invisible to the tweeter. I could cover them with duct tape with little change to the tweeter response, with the ports not in corners -- they were arranged in a square. The originally placed woofer ports, however, played hell with the tweeter response, even though I wouldn't have expected too much tweeter radiation to reach there. I moved those further out and made them smaller to get that interraction acceptable.
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Old 28th June 2019, 06:34 PM   #20
DPH is offline DPH  United States
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Some sort of a critical diameter/X-section makes them visible/invisible, Bill?

I'm also forgetting what shape you made your printed ports.
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