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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Single tractrix 200 with coaxial cd
Single tractrix 200 with coaxial cd
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:00 AM   #1
keith1962 is offline keith1962
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Default Single tractrix 200 with coaxial cd

I put up a previous similar thread and it didn’t receivemuch response as I think it covered to broad a question so I am starting thisnew one with a more detailed proposal/query.
I have a 4 way active set up using an active sub, 18” FaneColossus XB in open baffle 60 – 400ish, Beyma 12” (12p80nd) 400ish – 2k and aBeyma TPL150 from 2k up.
My plan is to replace the 12” and TPL150 with a 200Hztractrix horn with a BMS 4592 coaxial covering the whole range from 300 to 400Hz all the way up.
I am in a dedicated room with dedicated seat and sweet spotlistening position. The tractrix horn would be vertically centred at ear heightand toed in to suit.
Is this solution with better point source, phase and timealignment above the 18” driver a better solution than having a 200Hz horn witha non-coax driver up to 5k, or thereabouts, and the TPL or a second, smallertractrix playing above this?
My concern is that playing such a wide range will be toomuch of a compromise playing through a single horn, but then that defeats theobject of the coaxial driver, which in theory covers 300 to 22k, so BMS musthave envisaged that the driver would be used in this way.
Any thoughts on my proposals would be most appreciated.
KR
Keith
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Old 13th June 2019, 08:15 AM   #2
djmaxx is offline djmaxx  Latvia
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Single Tractrix horn in not good idea. BMS 4592 has lot problems from 300-500hz and 4khz to 22khz. And this big 2" horn was very beamy in mid and hi frequency. Better results will be with aditional 1" driver and small horn.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:38 PM   #3
keith1962 is offline keith1962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaxx View Post
Single Tractrix horn in not good idea. BMS 4592 has lot problems from 300-500hz and 4khz to 22khz. And this big 2" horn was very beamy in mid and hi frequency. Better results will be with aditional 1" driver and small horn.


What are the problems from 300 to 500 Hz and also above 4kHz? If there are such problems why do BMS persist with it if it cant be used over the full range that they say? Not being awkward, would just like to know why.
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Old 13th June 2019, 12:44 PM   #4
Bas Horneman is offline Bas Horneman  Netherlands
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Quote:
If there are such problems why do BMS persist with it if it cant be used over the full range that they say?
I'd like to know as well...Not to mention the apparently wonderful sounding Volti speakers which use that driver for the mids. I heard the 4592 mid version in a diy project..used in a nice big wooden horn...pure bliss...
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Last edited by Bas Horneman; 13th June 2019 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 13th June 2019, 02:42 PM   #5
Bergfinn is offline Bergfinn  Norway
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Tractix-200 is a low/midrange horn.
Works best in the 400-3000 khz area.


Maybe a horn like this works better for you?
5-600 hz to 8-10 khz. Still needs a tweeter on top.
Yuichi A 320FL


Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Bergfinn; 13th June 2019 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 13th June 2019, 03:09 PM   #6
hottattoo is offline hottattoo  United States
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Keith,

From my personal experience, using a Sierra Brooks (unfortunately, no longer made) 250hz solid mahogany tractrix horn, I found the BMS 4592 coax driver to be a little hard and bright sounding over a trial period of about 6 weeks using various SET amplifiers. I found the JBL 2441 equally detailed but much more relaxed when used at 450hz to 6kz. This is subjective listening without measurements. Just because a driver can go very low and very high does not mean it will sound its best at the extremes. I use a TAD ET-703 tweeter and also have a pair of Fostex T500A MK2 tweeters that are also excellent. If you look at Cessaro horns, Avantgarde, Living Voice etc. you will notice none of them use a single driver / horn to cover the entire range from 400hz and up. The answer, can it be done, YES, will it sound better then using a good tweeter covering the high frequencies IMHO, No. I have since moved to the Classic Audio 2" field coil drives with beryllium diaphragms and my driver search has ended !! Another possible option is a TAD horn or clone (EBAY) and a used pair of TAD 4001 drivers. Sometimes it pays to buy right, and cry once !!! Hope this info helps. Good luck,

Horns: - Horns by Auto-Tech
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Old 13th June 2019, 04:28 PM   #7
keith1962 is offline keith1962
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Thanks for the responses. So 200 Hz horn 400 ish to 5k ish and use my TPL150H 5k up is what I am favouring now.
Driver to be a 2" CD to be decided. Might look to see if I can get hold of some JBL 2482 second hand.
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Old 14th June 2019, 03:26 AM   #8
Brett is offline Brett
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The BMS coaxes don't like to play that low. As mentioned such a large trax will beam like a lighthouse; I know as I spent a lot of money to have a custom unit turned up and it was awful. I ended up with the Arai 290 unit and the 4590 from 700Hz up in a 5 way FLH system. They're hard to do a great passive xover for - I went active and fixed it's faults that way.
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Old 14th June 2019, 08:53 AM   #9
keith1962 is offline keith1962
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I am using Najda active xover and DSP so no problem there. The guy who is building the tractrix uses one himself, previously with 2" JBL and now with Vitavox S2 .
That sounds like the way to go in order to get that 400 ish to 5k ish region covered.
Anyone know of any good condition JBL 2" drivers for sale :-D
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:03 AM   #10
vinylnvalves is offline vinylnvalves  United Kingdom
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M200 drivers are a good midrange compression driver too. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...KKiLQWASYCWLQE
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