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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

DIY speaker recomendations, maybe Garnacha?
DIY speaker recomendations, maybe Garnacha?
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Old 9th June 2019, 09:41 AM   #1
Smoothy is online now Smoothy  Sweden
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Default DIY speaker recomendations, maybe Garnacha?

Question:

Im looking at cjds Garneacha which seams to be more or less exactly what Im looking for size and budget wise and seams to deliver some umpfh in the lowers. Its not as well documented and as proven as many other designs but cjd seams to know what he is doing.Can anyone see any reason not to build this speakers? Will more or less only be used for music in stereo. Mainly background listening. If not, does anyone have recommendations according to the longer post below?

I'm in no way a audiophile and Im mainly building speakers for the project itself. I like making stuff


More info:

Have decided to build a couple of new speakers. And, as it should be, have spent hundreds of hours looking at different designs and ideas. I have basic understanding of how it works but are far from being able to derive my own custom design. Have previously built Zaphs ZR71 which I'm very happy with. Very clear and you can feel them in the chest to some degree when applying some power. Vocals and mids are to my ears excellent.


For the new set im looking at smallish (~40 liter) floor standing models. Something like a MTM, 2.5-way or 3-way. And while im perfectly happy with the ZR71 im hopping for a bit more punch in the lowers. Was looking at the Nomex 164 Mk2 for a long time but are not happy with the recessed tweeter which works poorly in my cabinet design. Zaphs BAMTM was on the table as well as ZDT3.5 and pretty much all other of his designs.
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Old 9th June 2019, 12:26 PM   #2
Kustomize123 is offline Kustomize123
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If I were to build a speaker all over again, I think Tarkus would be it for a lower budget side of the things. Goes low, goes loud, its HiFi enough, reviews show its revealing enough, basically, I feel as if its got the best of the bits of everything. VALUE FOR MONEY!
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Old 9th June 2019, 01:04 PM   #3
pguerin is offline pguerin  France
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Quote:
For the new set im looking at smallish (~40 liter) floor standing models. Something like a MTM, 2.5-way or 3-way. And while im perfectly happy with the ZR71 im hopping for a bit more punch in the lowers. Was looking at the Nomex 164 Mk2 for a long time but are not happy with the recessed tweeter which works poorly in my cabinet design.
Hi Smoothy,

You can build the Nomex 164 mk1 wich work very well and "They deliver a punchy bass that even can be felt" cf. TG Gravesen design :

PEERLESS-NOMEX-164

I've build those speaker and still like them very much drived with an Icepower 50 ASX2.
One tip, you have to fine tune the tweeter level to get the right balance depending on the coils an resistors used on the corossover. -0.2 Ohms on the tweeter serie resistor can change the speaker balance.

Construction d'enceintes "Nomex 164" - Le blog de pguerin

Last edited by pguerin; 9th June 2019 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 9th June 2019, 02:36 PM   #4
Smoothy is online now Smoothy  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kustomize123 View Post
If I were to build a speaker all over again, I think Tarkus would be it for a lower budget side of the things. Goes low, goes loud, its HiFi enough, reviews show its revealing enough, basically, I feel as if its got the best of the bits of everything. VALUE FOR MONEY!

I think Tarkus is a bit to big and the format don't really fit in this project. Thanks for the suggestion tho.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pguerin View Post
Hi Smoothy,

You can build the Nomex 164 mk1 wich work very well and "They deliver a punchy bass that even can be felt" cf. TG Gravesen design :

PEERLESS-NOMEX-164
.....

Interesting I have also looked at the Mk1 but i think it would bother me for the rest of my life if i did not build the one with higher model number, aka Mk2. Maybe the differences are so small its not noticeable but i would always think about it in the back of my head.


I have also thought about building the Mk2 with a simpler flat baffle, but who can say how big impact on the sound that would have without testing it?

Last edited by Smoothy; 9th June 2019 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:08 PM   #5
pguerin is offline pguerin  France
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Quote:
I have also thought about building the Mk2 with a simpler flat baffle, but who can say how big impact on the sound that would have without testing it?
Tweeter and upper woofer will not be in phase because of the topology of the filter, with LR2 slopes you need to deal with accoustic phase of the speakers and reverse polarity of the tweeter.

So if you want to build a flat baffle build the mk1 or if you want to build the mk2, build the cabinet with the 19mm recessed tweeter and 5 tilt

As said again, IMHO mk1 is a very good speaker, you can read the reviews of builders, I've been in touch with few of them.
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Old 9th June 2019, 03:14 PM   #6
jReave is offline jReave  Canada
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I have not kept up with the issue, but be aware that the Dayton RS tweeters have been updated and that the FR responses are not quite the same as the old ones (probably true for the impedance responses too). And the Garnachas were designed with the older models if that's not clear.

Perhaps you can get by with just adding a little more series resistance to take care of the increased sensitivity, maybe increasing Rt1 or perhaps adding another R before Ct1. I'm guessing another 2 to 4ohm will be necessary. But it would be better for you if someone weighed in who actually has real world experience dealing with them.
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Old 9th June 2019, 07:42 PM   #7
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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I couldn't live with that step in the baffle. I'd make it flat, round the edges near the tweeter and redo the crossover to suit.
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Old 10th June 2019, 10:30 AM   #8
wolf_teeth is offline wolf_teeth  United States
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Yes, to the OP, Chris does know what he's doing. I've not heard the Garnacha, but I have heard Ansonica, Arbouriou, Nebbiolo, Khanspire, Ochocinco, and Pecorino. I think anything that he has designed should be exemplary of good results.

Later,
Wolf
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Old 11th June 2019, 08:20 PM   #9
Smoothy is online now Smoothy  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pguerin View Post
Tweeter and upper woofer will not be in phase because of the topology of the filter, with LR2 slopes you need to deal with accoustic phase of the speakers and reverse polarity of the tweeter.

So if you want to build a flat baffle build the mk1 or if you want to build the mk2, build the cabinet with the 19mm recessed tweeter and 5 tilt

As said again, IMHO mk1 is a very good speaker, you can read the reviews of builders, I've been in touch with few of them.
Yes i figured that i cant just change the baffle layout without working with the filter. I think I have read every easily accessible text about the Nomex at this point. Im sure Mk1 is a excellent speaker . But Mk2 is, from what i read, an improvement made to handle some of the complaints regarding the tweeter.

Im trying to improve my design to handle the thicker baffle in the Mk2 version but its not easy without changing the baffle layout and thus the filter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jReave View Post
I have not kept up with the issue, but be aware that the Dayton RS tweeters have been updated and that the FR responses are not quite the same as the old ones (probably true for the impedance responses too). And the Garnachas were designed with the older models if that's not clear.

Perhaps you can get by with just adding a little more series resistance to take care of the increased sensitivity, maybe increasing Rt1 or perhaps adding another R before Ct1. I'm guessing another 2 to 4ohm will be necessary. But it would be better for you if someone weighed in who actually has real world experience dealing with them.
Thanks so much for the tips. Not sure if i would have noticed this myself. This is why this forum is awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
I couldn't live with that step in the baffle. I'd make it flat, round the edges near the tweeter and redo the crossover to suit.
Any suggestions on how to do this? Since Im in Sweden and its a closed kit its likely Im buying the complete kit from Jentzen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_teeth View Post
Yes, to the OP, Chris does know what he's doing. I've not heard the Garnacha, but I have heard Ansonica, Arbouriou, Nebbiolo, Khanspire, Ochocinco, and Pecorino. I think anything that he has designed should be exemplary of good results.

Later,
Wolf
Thanks for the input Wolf, very appreciated. You see any reason to not use speakers "made for HT" for stereo music use?
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Old 11th June 2019, 10:15 PM   #10
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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I don't know what to say. If I had that kit I would be modifying it and re-doing the crossover anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem.
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