Hi guys i was wondering if anyone had FRD & ZMA files for the B&C DE-250 driver on a Dayton Audio H6512 6-1/2" x 12" Wave-guide. I am wanting to build a pair of econowaves for my churches recreational room. I would love to be able to play in xsim with the files before buying. Right now the room has some no name pa speakers that sound like crap. Thanks in advance
I think the DE250 would be better suited with the B&C ME20 horn since the throat angle is matched. Also I think the Dayton horn is too big. If you try to cross the DE250 below 2kHz it will sound harsh because of the main resonance of the diaphragm.
Take a look at B&C’s suggested speaker plans for good help.
B&C Speakers
Take a look at B&C’s suggested speaker plans for good help.
B&C Speakers
Not trying to sound like a jerk, but please do not make any recommendations to people that are based on opinion if you have measurements to back up your claims then please present them.
My decision to use the JBL or Dayton clone with the DE-250 is based on measurements so they are proven winners here is a link Red Spade Audio their test concluded the DE-250 & Dayton waveguide to be perfect match. Red Spade Audio: Waveguide GTG #2
The DE-250 is a pro-sound driver and the 1600 HZ crossover point is recommended by the manufacturer in a pro-sound setting. For home use this driver can be crossed lower just like any other 1" driver. Earl Geddes has crossed the DE-250 as low as 800 HZ for home use without issues. Tom Danley 1200 HZ. And Zilch R.I.P was the creator of the econowave and hundreds of these speakers have been built using the Dayton & DE-250 combo with outstanding success.
I understand what you are saying. It's my pet peeve as well when people make claims that are not backed up by measurement (conjecture). I just felt that it was clear from the published manufacturer's specs that the driver diaphragm has resonance as high as 1.8kHz as indicated by the impedance curve. While I can't speak against what others do with the DE250 I can only show you what my observations have been with the DE250, as well as other friends that have attempted to use them but were disappointed by their performance below 2kHZ. I've attached pictures of my impedance measurements, as well as my friend's measurements. I've also attached a picture of the test setup...Dayton UMM6 with DATS V2 to get the spectra measurement (which is also shown below). This shows clearly stored energy just below 2kHz...wavelet scale for the time axis...which shows that decay is not quick enough at 1.8kHz since modulations should have a dynamic range of at least 25dB which it clearly does not. Decay at 1.8kHz takes around 3 cycles to fully decay...so not audiophile quality.
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Hi Mike, thanks for the curves, very nice! A beginner's question: Which db-level-graph is to be used in conjunction with the other Ecnowave driver, the Eminence KL3012LF? -1,5db? Or do I have to raise the graph to match the Eminence factory data taken from their product sheet? (I used FPGraphTracer)
This is probably all wrong, as I said, I only started reading a couple of months ago.
Best
Marinus
Not Mike but,
I'd recommend that you use the tracing tool found within VituixCad.
- It's superior to all others ( as far as I'm concerned ) since it also generates a phase file .
You'll need ( want ) to raise the db level ( for any of MikeC's graphs ) so that they then approximate B+C's stated driver sensitivity of 108.5 db.
If you raise the db level on any of Mikes graphs so that the loudest frequency is around 109db for this particular driver >> you'll be "good-to-go" ( when crossover simming these graphs along with different LF frd+zma's > as produced by Zilch ).
I'd recommend that you use the tracing tool found within VituixCad.
- It's superior to all others ( as far as I'm concerned ) since it also generates a phase file .
You'll need ( want ) to raise the db level ( for any of MikeC's graphs ) so that they then approximate B+C's stated driver sensitivity of 108.5 db.
If you raise the db level on any of Mikes graphs so that the loudest frequency is around 109db for this particular driver >> you'll be "good-to-go" ( when crossover simming these graphs along with different LF frd+zma's > as produced by Zilch ).
Here are frd and zma for DE250-8 in Pyle PH612 (same as Dayton). I used plastic adapter and i sanded it untill the driver measured good enough - if you don't sand it, and by that make a smoother transition from driver to the waveguide, cancellation will occur at 7 or 10 kHz (it was a long time ago so i forgot).
View attachment de250 u zvukovodu.zip
View attachment de250 u zvukovodu.zip
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Thank you both Earl and Zvu. I did follow your instructions Earl and generated a frequency response file, using Mike's -1,5 db meassurement in vituixCAD and setting the amplitude to 108,5 db. This is 14,5 db higher than the graph of the meassurement, so I accordingly bumped the low end from 40 db to 54,5 db. I don't even know if one can do this in a logarithmic scale? Anyway, the graphs are there, very satisfying, yet if compared to one another, one can see considerable differences. Red is the file created from Mike's meassurement, blue the data Zvu kindly provided. Probably the error is sitting in front of my computer, I don't know:
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I don't follow what you're referring to.
- It doesn't matter though.
Zilch's frd's for ( raw ) woofer ( located over at TechTalk in his thread called Flex Your PCD Mettle ) are usually pretty close to manufactures spec. .
- If they are off, it's usually only a few db requiring a small bump-up in the crossover software.
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Sorry Earl, I didn't explain it very clearly. I meant the compression driver's low frequency, which Mike meassured down to 40 db at around 200 Hz. If I set the high amplitude as 108,5 dB, I do have to adjust over the whole frequency range too, right? This is at least what I thought. So I also set the scale at the bottom 14,5 db higher before I extracted the SPL. An illustration:
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