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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:40 PM   #541
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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mabat

A very clear answer and one that I completely agree with. Horns and waveguides are very linear devices, there is no amplitude modulation. They can have strong linear effects and usually do, but as you and I know these can be dealt with - minimum reflections and diffractions and you have a device that is as clean or cleaner than any direct radiator.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 12:43 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk 182 View Post
if stained glass is your new thing why spend time on this forum?
I am still interested in audio and, while you might not agree, I think that I have a lot to offer. I just don't do it 24/7 like I used to.

And glass is not a "new thing" for me, I have been doing it for almost as long as audio (about 50 years), it just switched roles.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 01:47 PM   #543
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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is it wrong to compare a horn/waveguide to a transformer?
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Old 22nd October 2019, 02:30 PM   #544
miero is offline miero  Czech Republic
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turk 182, can you describe more precisely "amplitude modulation" you are hearing? For example is it comparable to sound of natural horn musical instrument, as in this video YouTube or this one YouTube ?
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Old 22nd October 2019, 02:46 PM   #545
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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no it would be more akin to the veil produced by a chorus or flange effect.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 02:57 PM   #546
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turk 182 View Post
is it wrong to compare a horn/waveguide to a transformer?
In its grossly oversimplified version it is an "ideal" transformer with none of an electrical transformers limitations, but some others of its own. It's better to think of the compression ratio in the CD as a transformer, that is more accurate, but some simplified models in the past have used a transformer for the horn as well - but that kind of modeling is obsolete these days.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 03:07 PM   #547
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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ok so no possibility of hysterisis...


when you say"some others of it own" what are you referring to?
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Old 22nd October 2019, 03:13 PM   #548
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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No, hysteresis comes from the metal used in a transformer.

An ideal transformer works the same at all frequencies, a horn doesn't. But over a limited bandwidth it is kind of like a transformer. A horn also has internal reflections and diffractions, neither of which can the transformer model emulate.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 03:53 PM   #549
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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sorry i thought hysteresis could be a dynamic lag between an input and an output....


and i guess the thought congruence of "internal reflection and diffraction" where like reflected energy in a real world transformer...
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Old 22nd October 2019, 04:14 PM   #550
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Hysteresis is a complex nonlinear phenomena that depends on the nonlinear magnetic characteristics of metals. It can happen in a motor structure, but not in anything acoustic since the medium is air, not metal.

In the transformer situation that you quote, the energy is reflected from the transformer itself. In acoustics it is reflected from the mouth or internal shape discontinuities and is one area where the transformer analogy just doesn't work.
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