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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 3rd July 2020, 06:58 AM   #2631
kessito is offline kessito  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by mabat View Post
Here you go. Would you consider it "more CD"? I'm not sure I would.

It is clear that reducing the flare radius is not a good idea - and this was already too much, IMHO. I could have told you right away but you wouldn't believe me

Click the image to open in full size.

Yeah I would consider this more cd, since the 1.5k range is much more in line with the higher part ( look at the black -10dB curve.
This specific sample is not so good, I didnt check anything, juat wanted to show that with changing the curve of the second part of the horn, you can use the diffraction " waistbanding " effect to match the lower part of the spectrum more to the higher part, rhus making it more cd. In practice a bigger flare will of course always be better. Its a juggling act.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 06:58 AM   #2632
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
Once again, thanks for the sims.
It seems the free-standing axisymmetrical variants have potential.
It kind of surprised me, I expected bigger problems.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:08 AM   #2633
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by kessito View Post
Yeah I would consider this more cd, since the 1.5k range is much more in line with the higher part ( look at the black -10dB curve
For me CD means that a shape of radiation pattern doesn't change with frequency, or at least that it smoothly and mildly narrows as frequency rises. It the example above it gets narrow at 2 kHz and then widens again at 6 kHz (not to mention the narrowing above 12 kHz). This is just not more CD to me - I would prefer the overall gradual DI rise anytime.
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Last edited by mabat; 3rd July 2020 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:16 AM   #2634
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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It kind of surprised me, I expected bigger problems.
There's probably room for improvement, but these initial attempts - once materialised - would likely perform well and look good too.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:16 AM   #2635
kessito is offline kessito  Netherlands
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As said; this specific example is not really good and I would never use it like this, but with some juggling you'll get the hf well behaved and still can have the -6 and -10 line be constant down to the lower frequencies.
Maybe its because I normally design horns for PA purposes that I find this more important, I always strive for a good balanced stereo image if one stands way out the middle , in my experience you can not achieve this with a response which is down6dB at 8k compared to 1.5k.
I look at it this way; if you can achieve +-2dB over the whole horn range over the whole adience area, you arw doing a good job.
Cheers

Last edited by kessito; 3rd July 2020 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:26 AM   #2636
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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OK, I can imagine that the goal of even audience coverage requires a little different compromises. I don't do PA and frankly I don't even remember if I ever heard a system than would sound pleasant - probably not as I would remember that.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:45 AM   #2637
bmc0 is offline bmc0  United States
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The larger and more gradual the termination flare becomes, the better the individual curves look (especially near the axis), but at some point the pattern starts to widen at the lower end of the passband. Obviously, the result is that the DI starts to tilt.


The interesting question is what is more important subjectively – really flat DI or extremely consistent frequency response within the listening window?

Last edited by bmc0; 3rd July 2020 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:51 AM   #2638
mitchba is online now mitchba  Canada
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Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
The curved baffle is undoubtedly effective and the final design probably required quite a few simulation hours.
Link to LS50 whitepaper: https://www.shop.us.kef.com/pub/medi...hite_paper.pdf

"A variety of geometries, ranging from rectangular enclosures to more complex shapes, were analysed and the axial frequency response of idealised mid-range and high-frequency drivers evaluated. The geometry was refined over a number of iterations to produce the smoothest response in the hemisphere in front of the loudspeaker"

@mabat - would love to see an ideal CD design for a 1.5" driver down to 600 Hz to mate with a 15" woofer for a two way...
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:55 AM   #2639
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by bmc0 View Post
What kessito is describing is the trade-off I was trying to balance with my design. The larger and more gradual the termination flare becomes, the better the individual curves look (especially near the axis), but at some point the pattern starts to widen at the lower end of the passband. Obviously, the result is that the DI starts to tilt.
OK but this is inevitable, sooner or later. In a standard monopole box there's no way around that, the DI will fall - I really prefer the overall gradual rise than the more abrupt one, which is then typically around 1 kHz.
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Last edited by mabat; 3rd July 2020 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 07:58 AM   #2640
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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@mabat - would love to see an ideal CD design for a 1.5" driver down to 600 Hz to mate with a 15" woofer for a two way...
Working on just that. A freestanding one, to be precise.
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