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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 30th June 2020, 08:54 PM   #2511
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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The ND3T wouldn't be my first choice to use with a waveguide.
As for top octave dispersion, you'd probably be better off using a 3" diaphragm driver with 2" wide angle exit,
like this one (36 Conical):
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Last edited by Ro808; 30th June 2020 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 1st July 2020, 12:06 AM   #2512
Snickers-is is offline Snickers-is  Norway
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I do not like the idea of developing a horn that only works with a certain driver. My experience is that even if dispersion is really important, it does not over rule the fact that most drivers are quite large compromizes.
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Old 1st July 2020, 02:03 AM   #2513
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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ATH4 horns can be adapted to almost any driver('s exit).

My comment regarding the ND3T is just an assumption, measurements will show whether it is correct.

It seems most 18Sound compression drivers are developed for:
- Tractrix-like horns (XT1086, XT1464)
- Optimized diffraction horns (XR-series)
- Narrow beam array applications (XG-series).

Every driver and therefore every loudspeaker system is a compromise of sorts.

Last edited by Ro808; 1st July 2020 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 1st July 2020, 03:40 AM   #2514
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro808 View Post
It seems most 18Sound compression drivers are developed for:
- Tractrix-like horns (XT1086, XT1464)
- Optimized diffraction horns (XR-series)
- Narrow beam array applications (XG-series).
I always wonder what assumptions lead you to these "conclusions" (or assumptions). Would you care to explain the rationale?
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Old 1st July 2020, 05:22 AM   #2515
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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I have finally found a nice demo project for subsequent releases - "pure" OS of about 12", solves in 10 minutes on an average office PC -
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File Type: png os-0-mesh.png (134.0 KB, 155 views)
File Type: png os-0-pmap.png (44.4 KB, 146 views)
File Type: png os-0.png (22.4 KB, 153 views)
File Type: png os-0-polars.png (19.7 KB, 150 views)
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Old 1st July 2020, 05:44 AM   #2516
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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But I wanted to show something different - I extended the above WG by an 1" of a tube, driven by a plane wave (as before - throat angle is 0).

There is now a reflection, but the directivity is virtually unchanged. Some might have thought that the tube will beam by itself on high frequencies - that is not the case. It doesn't matter what's the "history" of the wavefront at the throat. In this case it's still just a plane wave as before.
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File Type: png os-0.png (22.4 KB, 46 views)
File Type: png os-ext.png (22.5 KB, 42 views)
File Type: png os-ext-mesh.png (135.7 KB, 49 views)
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Last edited by mabat; 1st July 2020 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 1st July 2020, 05:55 AM   #2517
Ro808 is offline Ro808  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabat View Post
I always wonder what assumptions lead you to these "conclusions" (or assumptions). Would you care to explain the rationale?
In this regard it's pretty obvious: intended use.

Most manufacturers produce drivers for the purposes (needs) of their (prospected) clients.
The accessories (horns) reflect these needs. From the range of accessories it can be concluded that the majority of 18Sound's customers use the drivers for 2 or 3 way top / install speakers and line-arrays.
The horns are not exactly of the waveguide type, i.e. none of those features a rapid flare rate from the driver into the horn, perhaps with the exception of the XT1086.

One might argue, FaitalPro only sells Tractrix horns and yet some of their drivers (2") have a wide exit angle. Exceptions exist and these drivers were measured (and intended for use(?)) with non-Faital horns, presumably 2380 (derivatives), which happen to feature a surprisingly wide entry angle.

The throatless 18Sound 4015 drivers seem suitable for an (OS) waveguide at first glance, but I'm afraid they'll run out of steam in the top octave.

Last edited by Ro808; 1st July 2020 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 1st July 2020, 05:57 AM   #2518
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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I'm quite convinced that manufacturers don't match thier compression drivers to any particular horn, not even their own. For example B&C even admits this openly - that most of the customers use their own horns anyway. So I'd say that the "simple" universal goal is just to have a coherent plane wave at the exit of the driver, in whatever horn will be used. That's my impression.
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Old 1st July 2020, 06:09 AM   #2519
mabat is offline mabat  Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabat View Post
... I extended the above WG by an 1" of a tube, driven by a plane wave
Make it 2 inches (original on the left, extended by a tube on the right) -
Attached Images
File Type: png os-0.png (22.4 KB, 47 views)
File Type: png os-ext-2.png (23.1 KB, 39 views)
File Type: png os-ext-2-mesh.png (154.6 KB, 45 views)
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Old 1st July 2020, 06:30 AM   #2520
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What is beneficial is when the wavefront is already curved at the entrance of the waveguide for the same throat diameter (i.e. in the case of a higher exit angle of a driver of the same exit size, as for 4554 vs ND3T). I'd be not so sure that a higher exit angle in a bigger throat would still be better - this could be verified as well. Anyone can do it.
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Last edited by mabat; 1st July 2020 at 06:35 AM.
 

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