Surrounds?! What are the mains?
I suppose the problem with the bigger coaxial (12-15+ ) would be crossing the tweeter low enough with limited horn area....I know the woofer cone is part of the waveguide but somehow that seems prone to inaccuracy (Just a guess) and I do like the looks of the B&C 12HCX76 style.....it doesn’t seem to measure well but that’s never meant much to me.
B&C also have a little 6.5” in the same style that’s only $150 I’d like to play around with that in a 3way some day.....either that or Erich @ denovo has a modded eminence 6” coax w/celestian looks interesting also.
Yes I'll do a build thread to document it, though don't expect a masterclass in speaker design 😉
I imagine not enough gain to justify the size/cost since excursion increases 4x/octave, so for an 8" the next acceptable frame size 'down' is a 15"; now you've got a fine combo matched at ~300 Hz, the pioneer's original XO point choice for their first two way wide range PA FLH system, raising it to 500 Hz when higher power was required.
Unfortunately, this is too big for many and with the advent of separate subs/digital system management, no viable market, though a great option for the DIYer that wants a somewhat horn like [3] way without some of its size/positioning constraints and maybe cheaper too if the coaxial can be had at a low enough price.
GM
Here's an oddball, however I can't locate their web page...
https://www.prodance.cz/data/attachments/FOCUX/X20_spec_v2.pdf
https://www.prodance.cz/data/attachments/FOCUX/X20_spec_v2.pdf
Oooh, a 15” bottom with a semi horn loaded 8” coax on top.....something like this https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/wp-...6/SH-LPM-Left-Side-cropped-e1360347196961.png over a 15......yahbuddy!
I guess more important factor is the reflection of the floor and ceiling, and that's why we feel that the planer type speakers (smoother transition of the early reflection) sound more coherent than 3 ways in general.
I'm not understanding the point of this thread...multiway or full range the target is for the speakers to disappear. Although I am in a room about 12ft square I am listening at the mo to Mark Knopfler privateering. Although I am only 7-8 ft from the speakers, the stage is maybe 60 ft wide by 20 deep, and I am in the 5th row Have I got it all wrong ????
No I can't hear where the speakers are.
Also I now see it's only taken me 4 years to get here
Have I got it all wrong ????No I can't hear where the speakers are.
Also I now see it's only taken me 4 years to get here
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The point is not whether they disappear, but how coherent they are, i.e. do you perceive a horizontal piano, harp or a vertical one? Or worse, one that moves in both planes.
This is what drove me nuts with a large/tall full horn system that only the DSL Unity/Synergy concept horns solved, so for me, anything less is just mid-fi at best unless one sits far enough away for them to appear as a single point source.
GM
I think those who are curious should buy full range speakers and see if the imagine is particularly better or not.
FaitalPro makes a number of 4-5" drivers that would fit the bill, $30 or so if I recall. There's also a couple of Peerless that would work in about the same range.
Of course, there's also a number of coaxials from Seas and others I've wanted to try, but those are too expensive to buy on a lark.
FaitalPro makes a number of 4-5" drivers that would fit the bill, $30 or so if I recall. There's also a couple of Peerless that would work in about the same range.
Of course, there's also a number of coaxials from Seas and others I've wanted to try, but those are too expensive to buy on a lark.
I am a fan of coaxials. The best hifi sound comes from a 3-way with coaxial mid-tweeter. LR2 crossover (shallow slopes) makes the woofer to blend well and keeps bass instruments' sound coherent vertically.
A friend had big diy 3-way synergy horns, but they sounded too much like headphones to me. I want the stereo speakers' sound to fill the room and to give illusion of a large space and lifelike impression. Many of my friends prefer nearfield-monitoring-like tight and well focused imaging.
With multichannel systems L/C/R with exactly similar coaxial speakers gives the best imaging I have heard. Coaxial 2-ways work well because there is a subwoofer anyway. Similar speakers with similar crossover topology (and thus similar phase angle through the passband) is the key to success!
A friend had big diy 3-way synergy horns, but they sounded too much like headphones to me. I want the stereo speakers' sound to fill the room and to give illusion of a large space and lifelike impression. Many of my friends prefer nearfield-monitoring-like tight and well focused imaging.
With multichannel systems L/C/R with exactly similar coaxial speakers gives the best imaging I have heard. Coaxial 2-ways work well because there is a subwoofer anyway. Similar speakers with similar crossover topology (and thus similar phase angle through the passband) is the key to success!
When it comes to computing a stereo image, your brain does the "heavy lifting". There's no easy way to have identical sound on two speakers (or two ears for that matter). Try a white noise comparison of L and R ... it will make you modest.
So you can fuss with matching (including kludges like coaxial mounting) or you can take a stochastic approach with dipoles and ambience. But one camp can't say the other camp is missing the point, as in this thread.
B.
So you can fuss with matching (including kludges like coaxial mounting) or you can take a stochastic approach with dipoles and ambience. But one camp can't say the other camp is missing the point, as in this thread.
B.
From what i have heard, kef does its coax thing because of marketing and not because of some sound quality superiority. Some says coax is good only for center channel use but not so much for anything else.
I think it is true, just listen to the tweeter alone on a coax driver and compare it to a free mounted tweeter! I belive it is best to mount the drivers to minimize disturbence between them
I think it is true, just listen to the tweeter alone on a coax driver and compare it to a free mounted tweeter! I belive it is best to mount the drivers to minimize disturbence between them
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