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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Amount of hornloading in a Synergy horn
Amount of hornloading in a Synergy horn
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Old 14th June 2019, 09:56 PM   #71
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by Cask05 View Post

I believe that the issue comes when you lose polar directivity control in-room well above ~200 Hz (as I believe the quoted individual has exclusively experienced, but hasn't mentioned this little tidbit yet), then you lose a great deal of the effects of phase flattening across the board, like Danley gets with its passive crossovers and full-range directivity loudspeakers.
Chris
I think this is another case of tying variables together in a way that doesn't flow logically.....and further misdirection....

Polar directivity in a Synergy is a function of the horn size and geometry, waay more than any particular crossover design? That's why there are different size Synergy's, eh?

Crossover design in a Synergy is more about getting the acoustic sources to fully work together, than any enhancement in pattern control.
That's a big part of really understanding the Synergy concept imo...Synergy an acoustical concept more than anything else.
Crossovers are just the always necessary component in any multi-band design.

Measurements and crossover designs for speakers like Synergy's are undoubtedly made in anechoic or near anechoic environments.
What does the loss of indoor directivity well above 200Hz have to do with crossovers (or anything really)?

Besides, the best way to evaluate directivity (and crossover frequency/phase response) is outdoors or as reflection free as possible.

Meyer had, maybe still has, a series of video tutorials on crossover design that included charts for the major xover types, that showed response and phase by order and polarity.
The tutorials went on to show how a UPA-1P (circa late 1990's) was optimally tuned using asymmetric, different type, different order, different polarity, different x-over freq, 'named' crossovers.
That kind of methodology, that Danley is now doing passively has been widely known for a long time.

Crossover design certainly does effect the polars of typical two ways or mutiways with acoustic centers that are separated perpendicularly to the listener.
But again the whole point of a Synergy is to load the acoustic centers into a common source, and rid that x-over effect on polars.

Again, no secret sauce as has been claimed, imo.

Passive totally works, active IIR probably works even better, and FIR probably works best....

If there is a secret sauce , I would call it an excellent design with which ever path is taken...
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:07 PM   #72
Cask05 is offline Cask05  United States
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Maarten (the OP), I think I'll again restrict my participation to the K-forum and email directly as we've used over the past couple of years.

To others still interested in this subject: if you want to talk more about the subject of full-range MEH design/test or Danley-style crossovers, I recommend the K-forum (where there's actual moderation). My handle back there is "Chris A". I find it a very interesting subject that I think will continue to gain considerable momentum over time.

The data and information that I've presented here really represents the tip of the iceberg from that which I've learned benchmarking with the SH-50, the K-402-MEH work, and Danley-style crossover filter work applied to Jubilees, MEHs, and other loudspeaker configurations. It's made a world of difference in my enjoyment/involvement level of late. This is something that's easy to share (albeit elsewhere).

To the two guys having particular issues (i.e., not the OP): good luck.

Regards and best wishes,

Chris
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:50 PM   #73
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Amount of hornloading in a Synergy horn
I would say one of if not the best advantage of designing with synergy/unity is that the crossover can be done without concern with off-axis interference lobes from the drivers. Everything is within a quarter wavelength and the waveguide sets the directivity. Basically behaves like a single driver horn but with the benefits that come with dividing the frequency range into drivers that can handle them best. So, get it right on-axis and use a good waveguide (set up so the lower freq ports don't mess up higher frequencies though) and the off-axis takes care of itself.
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Old 15th June 2019, 08:31 PM   #74
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
I would say one of if not the best advantage of designing with synergy/unity is that the crossover can be done without concern with off-axis interference lobes from the drivers. Everything is within a quarter wavelength and the waveguide sets the directivity. Basically behaves like a single driver horn but with the benefits that come with dividing the frequency range into drivers that can handle them best. So, get it right on-axis and use a good waveguide (set up so the lower freq ports don't mess up higher frequencies though) and the off-axis takes care of itself.
I share that assessment..... thinking you mean that the crossover on a synergy/unity is put in place without concern for off-axis response.

That is the beautiful property of a synergy/unity imo...stemming from its acoustic center collocation.
That makes the typical 2-way, multi-way, crossover lobing problems melt away, and need to be largely discarded with a synergy/unity/MEH (whatever the name
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Old 15th June 2019, 09:35 PM   #75
charlie2 is offline charlie2  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cask05 View Post
Maarten (the OP), I think I'll again restrict my participation to the K-forum and email directly as we've used over the past couple of years.

To others still interested in this subject: if you want to talk more about the subject of full-range MEH design/test or Danley-style crossovers, I recommend the K-forum (where there's actual moderation). My handle back there is "Chris A". I find it a very interesting subject that I think will continue to gain considerable momentum over time.

The data and information that I've presented here really represents the tip of the iceberg from that which I've learned benchmarking with the SH-50, the K-402-MEH work, and Danley-style crossover filter work applied to Jubilees, MEHs, and other loudspeaker configurations. It's made a world of difference in my enjoyment/involvement level of late. This is something that's easy to share (albeit elsewhere).

To the two guys having particular issues (i.e., not the OP): good luck.

Regards and best wishes,

Chris
Itís a real shame reading this Chris but as I have studied the ins n outs and whys of the successful creation of the synergy design and hats off to danley n co

And your meh creation based upon the findings of danley n co and well documented contribution are a great feat. Some real gems n nuggets of info.

Without stating the obvious but named crossovers by Tom dick n Harry are worlds apart

As for describing the port entryís regardless of semantics yes they are off axis always will be off axis the only port on axis is the compression drivers port. Throat

Now some may think reading this itís tosh but guess you ainít built n tried one

Neither have I ....but the compression drivers I have tried on several synergy style horns blows away ten different highly regarded waveguide/horns here that include jbl 2344 jbl 2380 altec 511b and seos
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