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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

A 4-way Horn speaker
A 4-way Horn speaker
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Old 10th May 2019, 10:17 AM   #1
hallcon83 is offline hallcon83  United States
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A 4-way Horn speaker
Default A 4-way Horn speaker

Hi , I am in the process of evaluating several different ideas for a Horn speaker system. The one concept that is my Favorite is similar to Tune Audio's Anima horn speaker. I like the idea of saving floor space and the (WAF) - of standing the bass horn upright with the mouth facing the floor. I'm not able to clone their exact horn of coarse , they don't list their drivers so my drivers and design will be a little different , they use a tweeter horn crossed over at 1500Hz , to an unknown 5 inch driver in their midrange horn, and cross it over at 250hz to their 15 inch driver in the upright bass horn with it's mouth facing down, and of coarse a sub woofer. I would really like to keep the same number of drivers and basic look of their design ... but I was really wanting use a driver for my midrange horn that needs to cross over at 400hz. My question is -- is the 150Hz difference between their crossover point of 250Hz and mine at 400Hz to much of a difference? I don't no much about bass drivers facing down verses your bass driver facing forward to know if that is too high of a cross over point? -- I realize the best way to know is to model and build it to find out , but the drivers I want to use for the midrange horn are about $1,400.00 a pair , Way too much money (to me) if I find out they won't work in that design! -- So I was hoping that someone here would be able to answer the question ??? Does anyone here know? - Thanks for any help you can give! - Dean
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Old 10th May 2019, 10:28 AM   #2
hallcon83 is offline hallcon83  United States
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A 4-way Horn speaker
- Tune Audio , Anima Horn Speaker Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10th May 2019, 11:06 AM   #3
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Opening to the floor would appear to be a discontinuity. The length of the horn at this point looks roughly about a half wavelength of 250Hz. I assume they were going to EQ this in the cross, and deal with 125Hz some other way. But then there's 375Hz...
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Old 10th May 2019, 11:47 AM   #4
Rewind is online now Rewind  Sweden
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A 4-way Horn speaker
IWATA IWATA IWATA
Also, front-loaded midbass is much nicer, unless you really have it in for a neighbour in the basement. The midwoofer will still play midrange.

Last edited by Rewind; 10th May 2019 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 10th May 2019, 11:50 AM   #5
cspieker is offline cspieker  United States
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Yes 400hz is too high to face down I would say. Even 250 is pushing it. The fundamentals of low human voice are down there. Imagine if a person was singing through a megaphone pointed at the floor, or pointed towards you. The sound would suffer much pointed down.

It is a beautiful speaker, but i always sctatch my head when people are building 4-5 way systems, since I am covering the full range with 2. Unless your room is a gymnasium I don't see a need for so many drivers and the coherency compromises they create.
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:00 PM   #6
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Originally Posted by cspieker View Post
a megaphone pointed at the floor, or pointed towards you.
Are you using this in a way that is a fair comparison?
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:30 PM   #7
Rewind is online now Rewind  Sweden
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A 4-way Horn speaker
4-way + a subwoofer is necessary, I think.
1. Midwoofer will most likely be an efficient 12-15", which will not play much bass.
2. A large horn that is crossed at 400Hz will not sound as good as a smaller horn at 2000Hz.
3. And a smaller horn will not sound as good at 5000Hz and up as a dedicated supertweeter with almost no horn.
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Old 10th May 2019, 04:15 PM   #8
DougL is offline DougL  United States
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Originally Posted by cspieker View Post
It is a beautiful speaker, but i always sctatch my head when people are building 4-5 way systems, since I am covering the full range with 2. Unless your room is a gymnasium I don't see a need for so many drivers and the coherency compromises they create.
This is about engineering compromises.
If you choose the higher efficiency and directional control of a true horn, you also get a maximum bandwidth of about 1 decade. Absolute Minimum of 3 way. Waveguides have higher bandwidths than true horns, but have other tradeoffs.

HTH
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Old 10th May 2019, 04:49 PM   #9
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL View Post
This is about engineering compromises.
If you choose the higher efficiency and directional control of a true horn
Also the direct radiating membranes ( commonly known as speakers )
exhibit the same characteristics, due to the phisical size( diameter-> pistonic behaviour) and geometry of the membrane ( more or less depth, conical, exponential profile or flat membrane...even convex )
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Old 10th May 2019, 07:31 PM   #10
cspieker is offline cspieker  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougL View Post
This is about engineering compromises.
If you choose the higher efficiency and directional control of a true horn, you also get a maximum bandwidth of about 1 decade. Absolute Minimum of 3 way. Waveguides have higher bandwidths than true horns, but have other tradeoffs.

HTH
An excellent point. I'm getting neither the efficiency nor the directivity below 500hz, and directivity is falling quickly by 700. Which seems to me a good compromise, but certainly others disagree.

AllenB, I guess my megaphone example was a guess. But it seems logical and consistent with the generally accepted principle to not fold a front loaded horn path below about 200hz. I believe that's the frequency I've seen cited. Perhaps im wrong?
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