Yes, but progress will most likely be utterly slow, due to other hobbies (children).
Hi Barry , Thanks for your driver and equipment rundown. -- Sorry to hear of your surgery and recovery issues, I hope your recovery goes well - I know what a pain health issues can be! Constantly dealing with some of my own - It really sucks getting old - my mind feels like I'm early thirty's, but my body is always there to remind me that just isn't the case! - 
I had a thought ..... I was wondering, how difficult is it for you to change the crossover frequency on your Midrange horn - ? ---------------------------- the thought that wandered thru was ...... assuming it isn't too difficult - ( I know - always dangerous to assume ) - how would you feel about trying your crossover point at 400hz to your bass horn - then at 300hz to your bass horn ?????? The purpose would be to see if it can sound okay at those higher points? I have my perfect midrange horn driver it is a BMS4592ND 2 inch Midrange CD, It's the same midrange driver that Volti uses in their Vittora Horn and it is an Amazing sounding 2 inch driver !!!!! They cross it over at 400hz, But not sure it can go down to 250hz crossover point like the Anima does. Please if it's too much trouble to change the mid to bass horn xover - don't mess with it -
I had a thought ..... I was wondering, how difficult is it for you to change the crossover frequency on your Midrange horn - ? ---------------------------- the thought that wandered thru was ...... assuming it isn't too difficult - ( I know - always dangerous to assume ) - how would you feel about trying your crossover point at 400hz to your bass horn - then at 300hz to your bass horn ?????? The purpose would be to see if it can sound okay at those higher points? I have my perfect midrange horn driver it is a BMS4592ND 2 inch Midrange CD, It's the same midrange driver that Volti uses in their Vittora Horn and it is an Amazing sounding 2 inch driver !!!!! They cross it over at 400hz, But not sure it can go down to 250hz crossover point like the Anima does. Please if it's too much trouble to change the mid to bass horn xover - don't mess with it -
Hi Dean,
I'm currently on holiday on Okinawa, visiting my eldest daughter and family. Yes, I can adjust the crossover point easily using the behringer when I return. Is there a particular track / piece of music you think I should use to hear the differences?
I can also try to measure but it won't be easy - mic @ listening position?
Rgds Barry
I'm currently on holiday on Okinawa, visiting my eldest daughter and family. Yes, I can adjust the crossover point easily using the behringer when I return. Is there a particular track / piece of music you think I should use to hear the differences?
I can also try to measure but it won't be easy - mic @ listening position?
Rgds Barry
Hi Barry, Hope your holiday is going well! And your family is healthy and happy, That's one of my biggest regrets - not ever having children , I thought for the longest time that I would make a poor example as a father - my childhood was destitute of love and full of abuse , and my my mom, brother and sister and I don't talk much ... so I was afraid of becoming my father ..... no child should have to deal with that. And I didn't appreciate children much when I was younger .... but now the Holidays seem empty and I see my friends enjoying their kids.... and we both wish that we would have found a way, even though we both have major medical issues .... I guess what they say is true -- hind sight is 20-20 -
On to the important stuff , I am sort of a newbie at this so i'm guessing ... I'm thinking human voice is one of the hardest things to get right... so maybe something in that vocal range like maybe Chris Isaak's Wicked game , or any low men's voice like maybe Luther Vandross's music..... also Piano is supposed to be a very good measure of a speakers accuracy, and maybe classical orchestra music - Anyway those are my guesses , You would probably do better - I am hoping that you will be able to hear the difference compared to your regular crossover point if there is something majorly wrong at 300 or 400hz. xover points - Best Regards, Dean
On to the important stuff , I am sort of a newbie at this so i'm guessing ... I'm thinking human voice is one of the hardest things to get right... so maybe something in that vocal range like maybe Chris Isaak's Wicked game , or any low men's voice like maybe Luther Vandross's music..... also Piano is supposed to be a very good measure of a speakers accuracy, and maybe classical orchestra music - Anyway those are my guesses , You would probably do better - I am hoping that you will be able to hear the difference compared to your regular crossover point if there is something majorly wrong at 300 or 400hz. xover points -
Best Regards, Dean
ah -- I forgot your measurement question... I have not had the chance to do anything like that yet so ...... maybe just at several degrees around in an arc with the listening chair in the middle of the arc one of the most important ..... maybe just at the listening chair, I don't know. You are definitely more experienced with measurements, so I defer to your great wisdom!
250->300->400 Hz
Hi Dean,
Apologies for the delay in replying, life got in the way of playing with the hi-fi. I decided the easiest way to see the impact of changing the crossover point was by alternatively listening to the vertical horn and horizontal horn whilst changing the frequency from 250 ->300 ->400 Hz. I left crossover at LR24 and used Chris Isaak - Wicked Games and Robbie Robertson - Somewhere down the crazy river.
Summary - as you increase the frequency you hear more of the male vocal out of the vertical horn and it sounds muffled.
Instead of having a vertical horn, I would suggest that you consider using a 400 Hz mounted horizontally, if you wanted to stay with your BMS4592ND 2 inch Midrange CD.
My original plan was to have all of my horns horizontal, but I didn't have room to fit them in. A sofa is in the way of the LHS. So, I compromised and went vertical. I took some measurements and will post later.
Hope this helps in your decision making?
All the best Barry
Hi Dean,
Apologies for the delay in replying, life got in the way of playing with the hi-fi. I decided the easiest way to see the impact of changing the crossover point was by alternatively listening to the vertical horn and horizontal horn whilst changing the frequency from 250 ->300 ->400 Hz. I left crossover at LR24 and used Chris Isaak - Wicked Games and Robbie Robertson - Somewhere down the crazy river.
Summary - as you increase the frequency you hear more of the male vocal out of the vertical horn and it sounds muffled.
Instead of having a vertical horn, I would suggest that you consider using a 400 Hz mounted horizontally, if you wanted to stay with your BMS4592ND 2 inch Midrange CD.
My original plan was to have all of my horns horizontal, but I didn't have room to fit them in. A sofa is in the way of the LHS. So, I compromised and went vertical. I took some measurements and will post later.
Hope this helps in your decision making?
All the best Barry
Here are 3 measurements taken using REW. 250, 300 & 400 Hz crossover. You can see the output from the horn naturally tailing off @ 300 Hz (even with the crossover set to 400 Hz :- 250-400_Xover.jpg - Google Drive
All measurements taken at listening position, which is approx 4m from the loudspeaker IMAG1652.jpg - Google Drive
IMAG1651.jpg - Google Drive
All measurements taken at listening position, which is approx 4m from the loudspeaker IMAG1652.jpg - Google Drive
IMAG1651.jpg - Google Drive
Last edited:
50 - 20 kHz
Due to the sound changing from where they are to when they are moved into the room corners, my plan is to build the second one, put them in place and then optimise them. I think if I adjust the speaker with it in the middle of the room, I may be wasting my time because I'll have to do it again when it's in the corner - comments welcome.
Drivers & crossover points.
Fane 15B Vertical Horn up to 250 Hz;
Audax PR170 white horn = 250 Hz to 1k2 Hz;
Fostex D232 black horn = 1k2 Hz to 8k0 Hz
JBL 2405 = > 8k0 Hz.
Here's the frequency response from 50 - 20 kHz 50-20k_ungated-response.jpg - Google Drive
It sounds promising.
Due to the sound changing from where they are to when they are moved into the room corners, my plan is to build the second one, put them in place and then optimise them. I think if I adjust the speaker with it in the middle of the room, I may be wasting my time because I'll have to do it again when it's in the corner - comments welcome.
Drivers & crossover points.
Fane 15B Vertical Horn up to 250 Hz;
Audax PR170 white horn = 250 Hz to 1k2 Hz;
Fostex D232 black horn = 1k2 Hz to 8k0 Hz
JBL 2405 = > 8k0 Hz.
Here's the frequency response from 50 - 20 kHz 50-20k_ungated-response.jpg - Google Drive
Update
Hi, I've been able to do a bit of work on the second speaker. Pictures of clamping / forming arrangement to vertical pieces; vertical horn pieces including driver box and papier mache horn.
I'm still limited with what I can do, no heavy lifting, so will need to rope some friends in soon to assist.
Rgds Barry
Hi, I've been able to do a bit of work on the second speaker. Pictures of clamping / forming arrangement to vertical pieces; vertical horn pieces including driver box and papier mache horn.
I'm still limited with what I can do, no heavy lifting, so will need to rope some friends in soon to assist.
Rgds Barry
Attachments
Hi Mr Ba , thank you So much for doing the xover tests for me! - very sorry I went missing and didn't get back to you .......... we got some very shocking news, I went in for my standard followup at my primary care doctor, who I see every 3 months ..... and the next thing I know we are at a specialist who says - guess what - you have Cancer ...stage 4-5 - and you have a week to decide on the surgery, radiation , chemo ....
- needless to say we have been in over our heads for while ... Been spending all my time doing huge amount of research on the web -
Anyway forget all that , I was wondering where you are at with your Horn Speakers?
- needless to say we have been in over our heads for while ... Been spending all my time doing huge amount of research on the web -
Anyway forget all that , I was wondering where you are at with your Horn Speakers?
2 speakers built
Hi Dean, fully understand why you went missing. Sorry to hear re - cancer - chemo - radio, etc sounds bad news, what's the prognosis? hope it's good news. Have you been able to do anything with your build?
I've now got 2 speakers, one in each room corner & I've been messing around with crossover points, slopes, etc.
Here's latest measurement from listening position.
More to follow
Kind Regards
Barry
Hi Mr Ba , thank you So much for doing the xover tests for me! - very sorry I went missing and didn't get back to you .......... we got some very shocking news, I went in for my standard followup at my primary care doctor, who I see every 3 months ..... and the next thing I know we are at a specialist who says - guess what - you have Cancer ...stage 4-5 - and you have a week to decide on the surgery, radiation , chemo ....
- needless to say we have been in over our heads for while ... Been spending all my time doing huge amount of research on the web -
Anyway forget all that , I was wondering where you are at with your Horn Speakers?
Hi Dean, fully understand why you went missing. Sorry to hear re - cancer - chemo - radio, etc sounds bad news, what's the prognosis? hope it's good news. Have you been able to do anything with your build?
I've now got 2 speakers, one in each room corner & I've been messing around with crossover points, slopes, etc.
Here's latest measurement from listening position.
More to follow
Kind Regards
Barry
Attachments
Hi Barry , Wow you've made great progress - they look really good! Are you happy with the sound .... or are you still tuning???
The cancer was even worse news than at first - the doctor did more testing and said it's a very aggressive form of cancer -- But after lots and lots and lots of research - we've finally got a handle on things -- I even found researchers who have proven how cancer actually forms in your body - the answer kind of blows your mind!!! It has to do with our own stem cells and is kind of a long story .... I also found a lot of other very interesting info-
The United States has 20 to 50 times the cancer that is found in many other countries ...... so why - - - - the answer is actually our environment - here's just one example , women and men in Japan have about 20 times less breast cancer and about 20 times less prostate cancer than we do....... but within a few years of arriving in the US their cancer rates become the same as ours - why??? - the studies that are being done show that their traditional diet is is the answer - and of coarse after coming here they slowly end up changing their diet to ours. Seems like someone should let people know that what we are eating is causing most of the reasons for the top 6 or 7 things killing us in the US ......
But the pharmaceutical industry makes almost a Trillion dollars a year on the drugs , chemo and the radiation treatments .... and that's just for cancer treatments , diabetes treatment is also Billions of dollars -- ( I actually got diabetes about 5 years ago and like many people - ( Like Halle Berry ) - cured it with diet and exercise! ------- But you can't patent foods or diets! -
It's been a long road - steep learning curve .... and I am the last person who would have thought he would do "IT" - - but horror of horrors , we've changed our lives to a -- whole food, organic plant based diet - for the next couple of years - - - - - I love chicken , beef , eggs, milk, bread, pasta , sugar, pizza, hamburgers, fast food , etc !!!! --------------- But we are having to go pretty radical because of my situation --- my wife says she would like me to stick around awhile longer sooooooo - you do what you've got to do - --
If your interested - or know anyone who is sick -- You should check out a book that is on the New York Times Best selller's list - "How Not To Die" --- Believe it or not It's actually a fun, easy, interesting read - LOL ----- it's by a Doctor and is actually backed up by a lot of studies -- If i had the money I'd buy one for everyone I know - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The cancer was even worse news than at first - the doctor did more testing and said it's a very aggressive form of cancer --
But after lots and lots and lots of research - we've finally got a handle on things -- I even found researchers who have proven how cancer actually forms in your body - the answer kind of blows your mind!!! It has to do with our own stem cells and is kind of a long story .... I also found a lot of other very interesting info-The United States has 20 to 50 times the cancer that is found in many other countries ...... so why - - - - the answer is actually our environment - here's just one example , women and men in Japan have about 20 times less breast cancer and about 20 times less prostate cancer than we do....... but within a few years of arriving in the US their cancer rates become the same as ours - why??? - the studies that are being done show that their traditional diet is is the answer - and of coarse after coming here they slowly end up changing their diet to ours. Seems like someone should let people know that what we are eating is causing most of the reasons for the top 6 or 7 things killing us in the US ......
But the pharmaceutical industry makes almost a Trillion dollars a year on the drugs , chemo and the radiation treatments .... and that's just for cancer treatments , diabetes treatment is also Billions of dollars -- ( I actually got diabetes about 5 years ago and like many people - ( Like Halle Berry ) - cured it with diet and exercise! ------- But you can't patent foods or diets! -
It's been a long road - steep learning curve .... and I am the last person who would have thought he would do "IT" -
- but horror of horrors , we've changed our lives to a -- whole food, organic plant based diet - for the next couple of years - - - - - I love chicken , beef , eggs, milk, bread, pasta , sugar, pizza, hamburgers, fast food , etc !!!! --------------- But we are having to go pretty radical because of my situation --- my wife says she would like me to stick around awhile longer sooooooo - you do what you've got to do - -- If your interested - or know anyone who is sick -- You should check out a book that is on the New York Times Best selller's list - "How Not To Die" --- Believe it or not It's actually a fun, easy, interesting read - LOL ----- it's by a Doctor and is actually backed up by a lot of studies -- If i had the money I'd buy one for everyone I know - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--- Anyway, meanwhile back on the farm - I haven't had time yet to actually start building - I am still really considering what to do about, the Bass Horn .... and I found some interesting websites ....... got some good stuff from Romy's forum -- I know , he's not everyone's cup of tea, but i like His injection channel ideas for the Hi Bass/Low Midrange problem in most speakers. And PS Audio is also trying to fix that problem as well , but they are coming at it from another direction in their New speaker that recently came out, and I may incorporate their solution too. And then been thinking thru another VERY interesting Bass Idea I found at another cool website. Lots peculating around in the head at the moment! But very Unfortunately ..... I had a MAJOR Bummer happen! My BELOVED , VTL Deluxe MB300 Monoblocks , they were sabotaged- ( I think by a visiting child ) and had an accidental meltdown - it's so sad they have never had any problems till this happened ....... I was going to have to sell them to help fund my system change to high efficiency Horns and small tube amplifiers, etc. - but now I don't Know what to do ...... i don't know enough to try and troubleshoot problems in tube amplifiers yet, and at 300 watts the idea of digging around in there kind of scares me. Unfortunately It would cost hundreds of dollars just for the shipping to the factory in Chino California, then to be repaired at who knows what price -- and then $$$ to ship them back again --- - -------------- It's been one of those months!!! Everything broke at once around here ( Big screen TV, garbage disposer, car, dentist visits and the list goes on - LOL.) --- I am really hoping to find someone with more experience who can help with my VTL Amplifiers situation ..... well see , sorry for the long posts -
Best Regards, Dean
PS. if you ever want/need to know more about cancer, or where to go for answers - feel free to ask .
- -------------- It's been one of those months!!! Everything broke at once around here ( Big screen TV, garbage disposer, car, dentist visits and the list goes on - LOL.) --- I am really hoping to find someone with more experience who can help with my VTL Amplifiers situation ..... well see , sorry for the long posts - Best Regards, Dean
PS. if you ever want/need to know more about cancer, or where to go for answers - feel free to ask .
Hi Dean,
Glad to hear your health is improving. I had 12" of my bowel removed in March after they found some cancerous cells. Got the all clear now. I will get a copy of that book, but can't give up meat yet.
The speakers sound really good. They have a nice, effortless laid back sound. I had a couple of friends here last weekend and they were impressed with them. One brought a reel to reel player with him which proved to be a really good source. We played a variety of music to test them from Gregory Porter - Be Good, James Blake - Limit to your love, Cowboy Junkies - Witches, Led Zep - Dazed & Confused, Prodigy - Firestarter, Underworld - Born Slippy, Harold Faltermeyer - Axel F, Trentemoller - Evil Dub, Suzanne Vega - Tom's Diner, Christianne Stotjin - Schubert Nachstuck D672. LR24 crossovers @ 249, 1190 & 7kHz - working very well.
I need to paint the speakers to make them more domestically acceptable, properly time align the drivers. Our dog hates me measuring the speakers and turns into a shaking wreck when I use REW, so I'll leave them alone for the moment.
I need to find a better unit than Behringer DCX2496 with 4 outputs / side and will then do more to them then.
Kind Regards Barry
Glad to hear your health is improving. I had 12" of my bowel removed in March after they found some cancerous cells. Got the all clear now. I will get a copy of that book, but can't give up meat yet.
The speakers sound really good. They have a nice, effortless laid back sound. I had a couple of friends here last weekend and they were impressed with them. One brought a reel to reel player with him which proved to be a really good source. We played a variety of music to test them from Gregory Porter - Be Good, James Blake - Limit to your love, Cowboy Junkies - Witches, Led Zep - Dazed & Confused, Prodigy - Firestarter, Underworld - Born Slippy, Harold Faltermeyer - Axel F, Trentemoller - Evil Dub, Suzanne Vega - Tom's Diner, Christianne Stotjin - Schubert Nachstuck D672. LR24 crossovers @ 249, 1190 & 7kHz - working very well.
I need to paint the speakers to make them more domestically acceptable, properly time align the drivers. Our dog hates me measuring the speakers and turns into a shaking wreck when I use REW, so I'll leave them alone for the moment.
I need to find a better unit than Behringer DCX2496 with 4 outputs / side and will then do more to them then.
Kind Regards Barry
Hi Barry, Sorry to hear about the surgery - but VERY Glad it went well, and that you have the all clear so far!! - stay on top of it!
- they wanted to cut out my Prostate , and then Radiate or chemo for sure too - my neighbor is an X-ray / MRI tech and I heard way to many bad side effects that she had seen from that surgery! - -- I'm not ready to give up sex , And maybe end up in a diaper for the rest of my life......
I don't know some of the music you mentioned , I'm going to have to check them out ! ----- I'm sure some people would probably say I'm not much of an Audiophile when it comes to what kind of music I like......
I Really like Cowboy Junkies - Trinity sessions, I'm a Big fan of Female vocals, probably my favorite kind of music, I like ALL of Alison Krauss , - I like Mary Black - No frontiers, Loreena Mckennittt - The Visit , Holly Cole - Don't Smoke in Bed , Cassandra Wilson - Dance To The Drummer Again , Jacintha - Here's To Ben , SADE , Tracy Chapman , Eurythmics - And Whitney Houston, etc. -- Always looking for great female singers, let me know of any favorites!!! -
But , I don't discriminate, I like Seal, Chris Isaak, Lionel Richie, Boz scaggs, Bille Joel and even Johnny Cash on - American IV : The Man Comes Around! .
Love 70's 80.s 90's medium rock - Boston, Foreigner, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles , Dobbie Brothers, Heart, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Styx , Huey Lewis, etc. ---
- Like singer songwriter stuff from the 70's & 80's too - don't tell anybody .
Like Blues, - example , Gary Moore - Still Got The Blues ..... and
Like Good Guitar , like Stevie Ray Vaughan
Like Bela Fleck - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo , Like Dead Can Dance - Toward The Within , & Enigma - The Cross Of Changes.
- If you want to hear a amazing recording - ( even on cd) from 1960, go listen to - Mel Torme' - Swings Shubert Alley, It's like he's in the room.
------ I never thought to ask if you are using a Turntable set up - and kind? .... and / or what kind of Dac ?
Kind Regards,
Dean
- they wanted to cut out my Prostate , and then Radiate or chemo for sure too - my neighbor is an X-ray / MRI tech and I heard way to many bad side effects that she had seen from that surgery! -
-- I'm not ready to give up sex , And maybe end up in a diaper for the rest of my life...... I don't know some of the music you mentioned , I'm going to have to check them out ! ----- I'm sure some people would probably say I'm not much of an Audiophile when it comes to what kind of music I like......
I Really like Cowboy Junkies - Trinity sessions, I'm a Big fan of Female vocals, probably my favorite kind of music, I like ALL of Alison Krauss , - I like Mary Black - No frontiers, Loreena Mckennittt - The Visit , Holly Cole - Don't Smoke in Bed , Cassandra Wilson - Dance To The Drummer Again , Jacintha - Here's To Ben , SADE , Tracy Chapman , Eurythmics - And Whitney Houston, etc. -- Always looking for great female singers, let me know of any favorites!!! -
But , I don't discriminate, I like Seal, Chris Isaak, Lionel Richie, Boz scaggs, Bille Joel and even Johnny Cash on - American IV : The Man Comes Around! .
Love 70's 80.s 90's medium rock - Boston, Foreigner, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles , Dobbie Brothers, Heart, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Styx , Huey Lewis, etc. ---
- Like singer songwriter stuff from the 70's & 80's too - don't tell anybody
.Like Blues, - example , Gary Moore - Still Got The Blues ..... and
Like Good Guitar , like Stevie Ray Vaughan
Like Bela Fleck - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo , Like Dead Can Dance - Toward The Within , & Enigma - The Cross Of Changes.
- If you want to hear a amazing recording - ( even on cd) from 1960, go listen to - Mel Torme' - Swings Shubert Alley, It's like he's in the room.
------ I never thought to ask if you are using a Turntable set up - and kind? .... and / or what kind of Dac ?
Kind Regards,
Dean
I work with preparing the tissue samples from prostate amongst other things, and my impression of the disease is that it depends how sure you want to be on surviving, if you take the surgery or not. But I have also read that too often surgery is done unnecessary and other therapies would be enough. They call it the "Man's soul" and living without a prostate can effect you as a person.