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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

KEF LS50 playground - measurements of raw drivers in factory cabinets and simulations
KEF LS50 playground - measurements of raw drivers in factory cabinets and simulations
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Old 4th May 2019, 11:59 AM   #11
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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Great of you to join the party Goran,

I've uploaded your schematic and made it the resolution like in post no.5 in order to keep the uniformity of schematic vs frequency response grid. Hope you don't mind.

Cheers

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Old 4th May 2019, 12:00 PM   #12
gornir is offline gornir  Sweden
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KEF LS50 playground - measurements of raw drivers in factory cabinets and simulations
Default KEF LS50 AE v1-1 vs original x-over

Hi everyone,

Here's my simulation and comparison of the alternative KEF LS50 x-over called AE v1-1 and the original x-over. It’s based on measurements made by Zvu in post 1 in this thread.

As can be seen in the previous x-over simulations, the slightly hot tweeter between 2-6kHz is reduced and the depression between 0.9-2kHz of the original x-over is replaced by a depression between 2.4-3.8kHz in the AE v1-1 x-over.

This will change the tonal character of the speaker. How and how much must be determined by listening tests.

The different voicing and the better phase response of the alternative x-over design will probably give a more neutral character and a more coherent sounding speaker, but again, it must be determined and confirmed by listening tests.

Hopefully someone will test the AE v1-1 x-over and report back if it sounded good or not!

Cheers,

/Göran

Picture1: KEF LS50 - On-axis frequency response (AE v1-1 vs original x-over)
Picture2: KEF LS50 - 30deg off-axis frequency response (AE v1-1 vs original x-over)
Picture3: KEF LS50 - 0-30deg + 0-30deg average frequency response (AE v1-1 vs original x-over)
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Old 4th May 2019, 12:15 PM   #13
gornir is offline gornir  Sweden
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KEF LS50 playground - measurements of raw drivers in factory cabinets and simulations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zvu View Post
Great of you to join the party Goran,

I've uploaded your schematic and made it the resolution like in post no.5 in order to keep the uniformity of schematic vs frequency response grid. Hope you don't mind.

Cheers

Attachment 754230
No worries!

I'm more used to use 70-80dB scaling. Using a 40dB or lower scaling, might get you caught up in trying to fix every little wrinkle or suck out in the frequency response. After all, this is a simulation based on an anechoic measurement. The in room response will usually give you a lot more variation in the frequency response.

Nowadays I have stopped trying to fix very wrinkle in the response. Instead I let listening tests determine if a wrinkle is bad or not and if the level matching between the drivers are right or not.

Cheers,

/Göran
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Old 4th May 2019, 12:32 PM   #14
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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I couldn't agree more, final decision is derived by ears.

With me it's the other way around. I'm tired of listening and thinking if what i hear is bad music production or a peak/dip on frequency response. Nowadays i just make them very flat on and off axis and then i set the levels of drivers by listening.

So, basically it is the other side of the same coin

I'm not a factory to look at expenses for few coils and caps and don't really care if someone thinks my crossover is overly complicated for them - i do this for one reason and one reason only, to please myself I upload the files for others if they want to choose a different design path so they can do it their way and preference. I think it's fair since i've taken from community and got help when i needed it in past, about other things though but nevertheless. If someone likes what he hears when/if makes my crossover, good. If not, too bad. I always encourage people to simulate and DIY their own crossovers.

And i'm very glad you've responded to this thread because i love different approaches. The more, the merrier

Last edited by Zvu; 4th May 2019 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 4th May 2019, 01:49 PM   #15
maty tinman is offline maty tinman  Spain
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2013 thread

True Anechoic Kef LS50 measurements..

-> NRC Measurements: KEF LS50 Loudspeakers
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Old 4th May 2019, 01:55 PM   #16
maty tinman is offline maty tinman  Spain
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And KEF LS50 kimmosto measurements with Virtuixcad:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 4th May 2019, 02:16 PM   #17
gornir is offline gornir  Sweden
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KEF LS50 playground - measurements of raw drivers in factory cabinets and simulations
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Originally Posted by maty tinman View Post
Yes, seems to correspond very well with the measurements done by Zvu and the x-over simulations.
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Old 4th May 2019, 03:28 PM   #18
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I tried very hard to like the LS50 (especially since it eliminated the top-octave nulls pretty all non-KEF coaxs have) but the elevated 2-5kHz range was really grating, just a frustrating sheen that obscures detail and tone especially of brass instruments. Göran's voicing is much more accurate and also aligns with my preferences more.
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Old 4th May 2019, 03:44 PM   #19
Zvu is offline Zvu  Serbia
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One of the mistakes Kef did with LS50, in my opinion, is lack of some manual attenuation of tweeter. One switch on the back that can attenuate 0, -1dB and -2dB would make it much more enjoyable product for different users.

I haven't had a feeling that LS50 tweeter is harsh even with factory crossover and especially now with my modified crossover. I have listened my unmodified LS50's extensively - toed in about 15 degrees to cross 0.5m in front of my listening position that is about 2.5m away from speakers.

Last edited by Zvu; 4th May 2019 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 4th May 2019, 03:54 PM   #20
maty tinman is offline maty tinman  Spain
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Default LPF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zvu View Post
One of the mistakes Kef did with LS50, in my opinion, is lack of some manual attenuation of tweeter. One switch on the back that can attenuate 0, -1dB and -2dB would make it much more enjoyable product for different users...
Well, I have KEF Q100. Before months ago and my last mod, I always used a low pass filter to attenuate high frequencies. As I was solving my serious problems with the electrical grid and I was optimizing my Windows for multimedia I went up the cutting frequency.

Click the image to open in full size.

foobar2000 + iZotope RX 2 Hum Remover (VST plugin). Nordost QRT QV2. | Nauscopio Scipiorum

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Now I do not need the iZotope VST plugin anymore!
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Last edited by maty tinman; 4th May 2019 at 04:00 PM.
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