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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

3-way how would you do it?
3-way how would you do it?
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Old 16th April 2019, 12:54 PM   #21
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
For a 3-way id first choose a good midTweeter. Id cross that at 200-500 Hz to a midBass coupler, with multiple subwoofers (with DSP to minimize any room modes).
There is a lot to like. Crossover below 1kHz, tighter directivity at higher frequencies, room considered. The goals are very similar to those of the waveguide set... Goals that may count higher than the methods to achieve them.
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Old 16th April 2019, 12:58 PM   #22
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Here are some more examples of mid/full range with really good specs, performance and reviews at reasonable prices:

https://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-4424g00.pdf

https://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8424g00.pdf

http://meniscus.lightningbasehosted....Data-Sheet.pdf

4" SB12MNRX25-4 :: SB Acoustics

http://seas.no/images/stories/presti..._Datasheet.pdf

http://www.madisound.com/loudspeaker...B-H1600-08.pdf

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...B_11022016.pdf

Have you looked at any of these? They are very wide band and easy to work with.
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Old 16th April 2019, 01:55 PM   #23
marco_gea is offline marco_gea  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco_gea View Post
I like the old-school approach of having crossover frequencies at approximately 500-700Hz & 5k-7kHz
(instead of the 200-300Hz & 2k-3kHz that are more common nowadays).

In other words:
Mid-woofer + Mid-range + (super)Tweeter
(instead of Woofer + mid-woofer + tweeter).

Marco
Here are some of the "old school" systems (most dating from the '80s & '90s) that I would use as conceptual models for a modern equivalent:


Yamaha NS-1000

Yamaha NS-2000
Diatone DS-2000
Diatone DS-20000
Kenwood LS-G5000
Kenwood LS-990HG

Food for thought...
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Old 16th April 2019, 02:20 PM   #24
JensenHealey is offline JensenHealey  United Kingdom
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Gale too. A wide mid-range with no crossover in it seems to be a design goal of the 401a speaker. To keep box size reasonable the bass is handled with a pair of 8" Woofers.

I know I am biased, but the Gale approach (sealed too) sounds wonderful.
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Old 16th April 2019, 07:44 PM   #25
schiirrn is offline schiirrn  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
I'd go for a wide and shallow cab rather than deep and narrow. No need to bother with baffle step 'correction'.
+1

Doing things like baffle step correction is completely idiotic when there is no need for a baffle step effect to be introduced.

Unless you are a commercial speaker designer and need to build what people know or can't look beyond what commercial designer have been doing lately.
(a poetic "lately")
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Old 16th April 2019, 08:37 PM   #26
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schiirrn View Post
+1

Doing things like baffle step correction is completely idiotic when there is no need for a baffle step effect to be introduced.

Unless you are a commercial speaker designer and need to build what people know or can't look beyond what commercial designer have been doing lately.
(a poetic "lately")

Some of my previous "towers" I did "level balancing" of the bass with the mids as:

2xwoofers in parallel

2xmids in series (or just 1 mid.; sensitivity is the same as 2 in series)

1 tweeter

The baffle width was just slightly larger than the woofer diameter in each case.

I had very good luck doing it this way; 6 1/2 in, 8 in and 10 in. Obviously, you need to have a good handle on the concept of +6 dB voltage sensitivity vs. +3 dB more "power" for any parallel woofer choices. (low freq.) X/O's were anywhere in the range of 300 to 600 Hz. If you choose the drivers carefully; you can get away with 1st order crossovers; just be sure to allow for the bump that can occur with too much overlap; separate the frequencies. If I remember from Dickason's "Cookbook", use a factor of about 1.2? For example; if you choose an inductor that gives you a calculated -3 dB point at say 400 Hz for the woofer; chose a capacitor for the mid. that gives a calculated -3 dB point at 1.2 times that or 480 Hz. I may not be remembering this exactly right but I always had very good results. I usually always do this when I can get away with it as opposed to any higher order X/O ("MY" personal tastes and opinions strong here!).

I almost always put sheet cork over the entire baffle surface; this gives the drivers a good seal (you don't have to do router recesses), dampens the baffle and helps absorb excess reflections, diffractions, etc. Not the most sophisticated approach but I was always very happy with the results. Everyone that heard these also thought why did they end up spending as much as 10 X more on their systems only to find they much preferred the sound of mine (Engineers, technical people and musicians included in this group of happy listeners). As always; I am never afraid to experiment and I always use my own 2 ears when doing final tuning and tweaking. Many different ways of doing custom designs; not one size fits all here.
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Old 17th April 2019, 05:41 PM   #27
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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I did a 12 inch sub + 4 inch mid + 1 inch silk dome tweeter.
Technically not a 3-way, but saves you from adding another woofer, which can get expensive.
However, I always wondered if there would be a benefit in having two woofers/subs. Bass is mono anyway...
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Old 17th April 2019, 06:49 PM   #28
Brett is offline Brett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdan2011 View Post
Bass is mono anyway...
Only if your only source is LP.
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Old 17th April 2019, 06:52 PM   #29
bogdan2011 is offline bogdan2011
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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Only if your only source is LP.
Source is pretty much irrelevant. Most music nowadays has everything under 80-100Hz mixed to mono (at least the electronic/non acoustic stuff I listen to).
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Old 17th April 2019, 07:50 PM   #30
nipper1 is offline nipper1  United States
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I did a 3-way tower with two 10 in. woofers, two 4 in. mids and one tweeter. These were one of the best sounding large speakers I ever did. I tuned these to have an f3 of about 25 Hz and the woofers crossed to the mids. at about 500 Hz. We were listening to a CD where there were 2 bass drums; 1 tuned lower than the other. Well, 1 of these bass drums hit on the right channel woofers only followed by the lower tuned bass drum on the left woofers only. Very wide separation here. The point is; some recordings used to have "stereo" bass and yes; it was very obvious. This wasn't just the higher frequency components of the mallet hitting the drum head; this was the ENTIRE spectrum of the drum sound INCLUDING the deep bass portion. Just, for what it's worth, the ear CAN detect stereo bass, even the lower frequencies. Most recording Engineers would never even try to bother with such a thing because the lowest frequencies have such a large wavelength; why bother. I also did true stereo sub woofers once. These were only used below 40 Hz so one could NOT detect any stereo separation. I am found of using more than one subwoofer; it helps "smooth" out room modes when they are in physically different locations even if no longer "stereo".
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