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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Which driver would you choose?
Which driver would you choose?
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Old 14th April 2019, 04:54 AM   #21
ICG is online now ICG  Germany
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Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
I don't like are 1, 2 and 10 because of the Qes

What is the problem with high Qes? because I want to use the drivers in the optimal box, closed or vented;
No, you don't want that. Unless you want a top (sat) and xo it at ~100Hz, you don't want it vented. At low frequencies the human ear is very insensitive to phase changes, above ~100Hz fb it starts to sound horrible. And you don't want the reflected muddy mid-garbage from the back of the driver/inside of the enclosure to come out of the port. It will sound much cleaner and detailed in a sealed compartment instead of a vented. TBH, I would not care that much about the Qes for the midrange.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:07 AM   #22
ICG is online now ICG  Germany
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At this point you can't continue without pairing the midrange with the tweeter, spl, xo frequency and dispersion pattern are essential to chose the mid aswell as the tweeter driver.
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Old 14th April 2019, 08:15 AM   #23
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
Satori , What do you do with the raise at 600 to 900 hz?
What do you do with the dip at 1200hz?
The SPL response shown in the data sheet has nothing to do with the response you will see in your speaker. The response is largely controlled by the baffle geometry.

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Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
I wonder also why the suspension is so lose 2.53mm/N is very lose.
Maybe it is a stereotype: wouldn't it be the opposite goal of a midrange?
Well, again, it depends on what you need for your loudspeaker system. Looking at isolated parameters is not going to be a useful approach.

WHAT KIND OF SPEAKER ARE YOU TRYING TO DEVELOP?
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Old 14th April 2019, 02:07 PM   #24
jmproductions is offline jmproductions  United States
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Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
What is the problem with high Qes? because I want to use the drivers in the optimal box, closed or vented; driver 1 has a Qts of 0.44, the suspension is mostly dictating the sound;#2is very puzzling to me because it has less sensitivity, maybe the alnico magnet is the determinant factor in construction between 1 and 2? #10 is a driver specific for midrange with stiff suspension
Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't like the idea of using a stiff suspension to control freq response. You give up a lot of SPL, I'd rather see a strong motor for efficiency and deal with peaks with proper baffle and xo design as everyone says.
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Old 14th April 2019, 02:32 PM   #25
mbrennwa is offline mbrennwa  Switzerland
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Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't like the idea of using a stiff suspension to control freq response. You give up a lot of SPL, I'd rather see a strong motor for efficiency and deal with peaks with proper baffle and xo design as everyone says.
A stiff suspension does not mean "you give up a lot of SPL" (quite the contrary, in fact).

Please remember that the Thielle-Small parameters are used to describe the behaviour of a driver near its resonance frequency. I therefore don't think the Thielle-Small parameters are very relevant in the application intended here (although I have to admit that I don't know what the "intentions" of this loudspeaker system might be).
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Old 14th April 2019, 02:42 PM   #26
jmproductions is offline jmproductions  United States
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Originally Posted by mbrennwa View Post
I therefore don't think the Thielle-Small parameters are very relevant in the application intended here.
That may be true I just generally have not been impressed with high Qes, lower efficiency drivers in my own experience.
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Old 14th April 2019, 03:00 PM   #27
jmproductions is offline jmproductions  United States
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A stiff suspension does not mean "you give up a lot of SPL" (quite the contrary, in fact).
However if you are saying that a stiffer suspension on the same cone and motor will gain SPL, I would argue against that. Common sense would make the point that stiffer suspension would reduce ring, not only at resonation, but also at all other freq to a lesser degree. Restricting cone excursion will reduce SPL... period.

Last edited by jmproductions; 14th April 2019 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 14th April 2019, 03:09 PM   #28
koja is offline koja  Canada
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one way to dynamics is a driver which is underutilized by having it perform only within a narrow freq range compared to its overall capability. then you look at those with a larger motor and good impulse response. I got a great result with Visaton AL200 that way in an OB (all DSPed for Xover and min EQ).
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Old 14th April 2019, 03:46 PM   #29
gabdx is online now gabdx  Canada
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Intention: 3 units for home use, no sub, all passive XO, 1 amp.

ICG has a very good point on suspension and Xmas, stiff suspension somewhat reduce sensitivity but it enabled greater sound levels at 1 to 2 khz due to the stopping of cone resonances/breakups , some suspension with 0.2mmH have almost no breakup and can play very loud, there are 10' midranges which are meant to be used that way for electric guitar and pa, ex: driver #10, this is not what I want I think because I want a better sound dispersion to enable 2 m to 7 m distance from speakers. A 10' would need a XO which can only cross far or close with a resulting beam or dip at some distances.

I think the major factor for sensitivity is the magnet type and construction type.
Alnico is the most sensitive, ferrite second and NEO is the worst (look at ss illum.)

KOJA, my experience point to the contrary, DSp is no no for me, kills everything I need to hear. narrow band is also very bad, I hate drivers with inductance over 1mH (total with XO inductors) I prefer not to use 3 rd order but rare are the drivers which can only be 2n order low passed with tweeter. The first driver and driver #10 can fit this requirement, I found that midranges or fullrange with high inductances like 2mH in total kills the top end dynamics, the opposite of what it should do according to you .
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Last edited by gabdx; 14th April 2019 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:49 PM   #30
gabdx is online now gabdx  Canada
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Tweeter could be SS R3004 or D2904 for higher sensitivity drivers.
I know I can XO R3004 3 or 2 order without issues, like 10uf + 0.25mH , 1R + 20R L-pad.
Or even 3 order with a bypass to the second capacitor, and add a Z filter.
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