CSS 2TD or CSS p215 for multimedia?

[Hbs187]

Hello from Canada, Harry here. I have been reading the forums for a while, but haven't posted until now. I have messed about with guitar amps and pa systems for some time. I have always had an interest in AV, and I am here for home theatre speaker recommendations.

while I was looking for a 5.1 system from a big box store, I was reading online and came across DIY kits. I am a noob so work with me.

A company called CSS seems provides kits that seem fairly fool proof and provide great value (according to reviews)

The options for a 5.1 system from them that I had in mind were:

1) 5 x CSS P215 (satellites)

specs at css-audio | SHOP

Approx: $1600 CAD

OR

2) 3 x CSS Criton 2TD (LCR)
2 x CSS Criton 1TD (surrounds)
With subwoofer.

Approx:
$2300 CAD

Will this type of speaker perform well in a 70% TV/Movie 30% music environment? or are these speakers geared towards music? Do they provide good value? Are there any other recommendations that are perhaps more accessible to Canadian customers?

My dedicated room is 20'x15' with 9' ceilings and a hallway opening (it is not permanent, but at least for the next 2 years). I don't really have a set budget, I just look purely for value to an extent

Thanks for your time. If this belongs in a different forum, I will repost.

Thanks guys!

 

[Hbs187]

Can anyone offer some insight ?

Thanks

 

[GringoAudio]

CSS used to be out of Abbottsford BC. They sold mainly drivers and DIY supplies along with some great sounding but very underdamped (making them good for near field but not much else) CSS branded drivers made by Tangband. And some monster subs.
They have new owners out of Michigan. The new product they offer seems to be very well regarded. The p215 got amazing reviews. Look for the Absolute Sound review, the Audio Bacon review and anything else you can find on them. They have higher models now which I don't know anything about.

2018 AXPONA Show Report: Loudspeakers Under $20k | The Absolute Sound
CSS Model P215 Bookshelf Speaker Kit - High-End Sound for Under $1,000 - Audio Bacon
YouTube

 

[Hbs187]

Thanks for the response. Yah I’ve done about as much searching on them as I could, and if it was only for music I think it’s a no brainer. I just am unfamiliar with the characteristics that make a speaker better suited for home theatre/multimedia aspects. I’ve used pure studio monitors for movies before and it didn’t sound right.

To keep it consistent my idea was to use three of the 2TD model (MTM with their 7” woofer) for LCR and 2 of the 1TD model for the rears. I also had reservations about having the left and rights positioned vertically and the centre laid horizontally due to size limitations as they are two feet tall.

 

[joetekubi]

Dude, Option 2 should provide substantially greater SPL than Option 1, due to the 7 inch MTM design for the Criton - since movies are important for your use. I don't think you'll find anything comparable in any store.

If you want to "shop Canadian", check out "Rhythm Audio Design" - they have a few kits and a couple of very nice designs, and are adding more. Both places are VERY friendly and knowledgeable. I would encourage you to message them with any specific questions. Lowest prices on Rival Acoustics, SB Acoustics, Scanspeak Drivers – Rhythm Audio Design

Hope this helps!

 

[Hbs187]

Dude, Option 2 should provide substantially greater SPL than Option 1, due to the 7 inch MTM design for the Criton - since movies are important for your use. I don't think you'll find anything comparable in any store.

If you want to "shop Canadian", check out "Rhythm Audio Design" - they have a few kits and a couple of very nice designs, and are adding more. Both places are VERY friendly and knowledgeable. I would encourage you to message them with any specific questions. Lowest prices on Rival Acoustics, SB Acoustics, Scanspeak Drivers – Rhythm Audio Design

Hope this helps!

It does help ! thank you for your response.

Looks like option 1 is out of the question.

What are your thoughts on having that dual 7" MTM design laying horizontally as a center channel? They are 22"H x 9"W x 15"D due to looks and size restraints it would be much more convenient. Will that totally destroy the soundstage and be fatally counterproductive, or is it something that will be negligible/reasonable compromise? its tougher in this case because I cannot demo and return since they are shipped across border, and need to be built.

Thanks again man!

 

[Hbs187]

The 2TD is large, and I cant fit 22" vertically underneath my projector setup. I have some reservations about placing an MTM horizontally as a center channel. Trusty internet tells me that I could rotate the tweeter and space the woofers less than one wavelength apart, center to center to help solve the issue. a crossover frequency to the tweeter at 1600 hz gives a wavelength of 8.5 inches. Cannot fit two 7" drivers 8.5" apart centre to centre, and still have room for the tweeter.


If I am going to spend cash, this is what I am trying to avoid

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[armeker]

I think there is often a misconception out there that you need one speaker for music and a different one for movies. A good speaker is a good speaker, period. Most people who follow the mantra of having different speakers are listening to speakers that are designed poorly which is why they might highlight one medium better than the other.

The only real consideration should be output level. If you want insanely loud (like make people poop their pants loud) you might need a speaker using pro audio drivers that have the sensitivity to drive to those levels. The trade-off is bass extension and/or size. You will need a much larger cabinet to go as deep with the pro drivers.


Given the amount of info on CSS that I can find, I would say they seem to be well designed and will do very well for either. The Criton 2TD will obviously get much louder than the P215 but if you are crossing at 80 Hz and don't listen extremely loud, they could potentially work fine as well.

As for center channel use, the 2TD has a very low crossover point. It's still not ideal. I'd prefer a wt/mw style design for the best dispersion but you should still have pretty even coverage out to 20 degrees each side or more. Comb filtering shouldn't be a huge issue that low either.

 

[joetekubi]

@armeker - good points, can't say that I disagree (much).
@Hbs187 - once you really start to model MTM nulls for a center channel speaker, the problem only shows up if you are greater than a specific angle from the center line.
Off the top of my head, if you are seated 8 feet from the CC, and you have a couch that's 8 feet long, the people on the outside seats might hear less treble. For the others, it will be fine.
Sounds like your room is about 20 feet long, so you are probably seated 14-15 feet from the CC. A couch on the center line should be fine, but perhaps extra seats on the side walls might have a problem. Why don't you contact the CSS guys, I'm sure they have polar plots of the MTM and can advise specifics.

 

[Hbs187]

@armeker - good points, can't say that I disagree (much).
@Hbs187 - once you really start to model MTM nulls for a center channel speaker, the problem only shows up if you are greater than a specific angle from the center line.
Off the top of my head, if you are seated 8 feet from the CC, and you have a couch that's 8 feet long, the people on the outside seats might hear less treble. For the others, it will be fine.
Sounds like your room is about 20 feet long, so you are probably seated 14-15 feet from the CC. A couch on the center line should be fine, but perhaps extra seats on the side walls might have a problem. Why don't you contact the CSS guys, I'm sure they have polar plots of the MTM and can advise specifics.

I have been in touch with them. They are very friendly and providing me with advice but nothing in the form of polar plots or anything like that. They basically just say “these are your options”. The problem is normally I’d buy 3 sets and test them and keep the best but since I’m looking for value and all signs point to this type of diy kit providing good value, I want to make the best decision before ordering them.

We sit 15 feet back, with two main chairs in the centre, and seating going out 10 feet in either direction. I’m not expecting perfect sound across the entire 20 feet of couch. If I can get 4-5 people in optimal viewing area I’m good. Hell even if I can just get myself in the optimal viewing area I’m good! Sounds like the 2TD will work fine.

 

[Hbs187]

I think there is often a misconception out there that you need one speaker for music and a different one for movies. A good speaker is a good speaker, period. Most people who follow the mantra of having different speakers are listening to speakers that are designed poorly which is why they might highlight one medium better than the other.

The only real consideration should be output level. If you want insanely loud (like make people poop their pants loud) you might need a speaker using pro audio drivers that have the sensitivity to drive to those levels. The trade-off is bass extension and/or size. You will need a much larger cabinet to go as deep with the pro drivers.


Given the amount of info on CSS that I can find, I would say they seem to be well designed and will do very well for either. The Criton 2TD will obviously get much louder than the P215 but if you are crossing at 80 Hz and don't listen extremely loud, they could potentially work fine as well.

As for center channel use, the 2TD has a very low crossover point. It's still not ideal. I'd prefer a wt/mw style design for the best dispersion but you should still have pretty even coverage out to 20 degrees each side or more. Comb filtering shouldn't be a huge issue that low either.

Thanks very much for your response.

Regularly, I don’t listen extremely loud. Probably lower than most. However, I notice a difference in large rooms, even at moderate volume, between a small driver at low volume and a larger driver at the same volume just idling along.

Define pro drivers? The products I’m looking at obviously aren’t super high end but all signs point to them being good value and better than anything I’ll find in a big box store.

Are you familiar with rhythym audio design products ?

 

[GringoAudio]

I don’t think movie watching requires matching speakers. It’s not critical listening in my opinion. It’s ‘sound effects’ largely and anything that imparts three dimensionality works for me. I’ve been pretty happy with cheap and cheerful surround speakers. Recently though I tried to improve my listening environment and bought something factory-made after years of DIY. I bought used model 3.0 fronts and a matching center channel in the Sonus Faber Venere line. Rears are Mirage OM-6. Slightly disappointed with the Sonus Fabers. They will do theatre service.
But my DIY Scanspeak bookshelf speakers are still the best for critical listening.

 

[GringoAudio]

CSS Criton 1TD Build and Review